their additional +30% accuracy bonus at vet 3 is too much for their current svt-40. They had that bonus back when the svt40 were crap, but the current penal just turn insane once they hit vet 3.
the 30% accuracy bonus at either vet 3 or vet 3 should be removed.
the issue with penal veterancy
6 Jul 2016, 10:19 AM
#1
Posts: 1930
6 Jul 2016, 10:32 AM
#2
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
It's fair that Penals lose either one accuracy bonus (to make them same-y with other squads), or their received accuracy bonus (to make them glass-canons/harassment infantry, but make the flamethrower completely redundant).
IMO, all infantry veterancy (+target size), including 5-star-vet, should be normalized relative to reinforcement cost. However, due to 1) the dominance of slot items (LMGs), 2)the disparity of default weapon profiles and 3) differing unit utility (e.g., generalist or specialist), it is tough to make the call where.
However, given that Penals now have good rifles, there's little reason to also give them the opportunity to turn into death-gods if they ever capture an LMG34.
IMO, all infantry veterancy (+target size), including 5-star-vet, should be normalized relative to reinforcement cost. However, due to 1) the dominance of slot items (LMGs), 2)the disparity of default weapon profiles and 3) differing unit utility (e.g., generalist or specialist), it is tough to make the call where.
However, given that Penals now have good rifles, there's little reason to also give them the opportunity to turn into death-gods if they ever capture an LMG34.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
6 Jul 2016, 10:37 AM
#3
Posts: 673
Get Vet 3 for them first, before crying, seriously...
Stop whining about "Vet 3 *unitname* performs too good, nerf, pls". It's ridiculous, almost all overveted units perform too good. Volks Vet 5 are bad? No, they dominate. Grens Vet 3 are bad? No, they getting invisible scopes on rifles and starting to snipe my units...
Vet 3 penals are fine, they should be "OP", cos they are not simply "mainline infantry", like same Volks or Grens (mainline of soviets are still shitty cons), they are kinda "Obers" of USSR. So, let them perform like they should in that role. And you know what - it's not such a big problem for to counter them, using such simple tools like: HMG, AI infantry, all kinds of vechiles (since they have 0 AT).
Deal with it, bro.
Stop whining about "Vet 3 *unitname* performs too good, nerf, pls". It's ridiculous, almost all overveted units perform too good. Volks Vet 5 are bad? No, they dominate. Grens Vet 3 are bad? No, they getting invisible scopes on rifles and starting to snipe my units...
Vet 3 penals are fine, they should be "OP", cos they are not simply "mainline infantry", like same Volks or Grens (mainline of soviets are still shitty cons), they are kinda "Obers" of USSR. So, let them perform like they should in that role. And you know what - it's not such a big problem for to counter them, using such simple tools like: HMG, AI infantry, all kinds of vechiles (since they have 0 AT).
Deal with it, bro.
6 Jul 2016, 10:43 AM
#4
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
Waiting for my friend from trip to test new Penals with double Vickers LMG. 
6 Jul 2016, 10:54 AM
#5
Posts: 1930
Get Vet 3 for them first, before crying, seriously...
Stop whining about "Vet 3 *unitname* performs too good, nerf, pls". It's ridiculous, almost all overveted units perform too good. Volks Vet 5 are bad? No, they dominate. Grens Vet 3 are bad? No, they getting invisible scopes on rifles and starting to snipe my units...
Vet 3 penals are fine, they should be "OP", cos they are not simply "mainline infantry", like same Volks or Grens (mainline of soviets are still shitty cons), they are kinda "Obers" of USSR. So, let them perform like they should in that role. And you know what - it's not such a big problem for to counter them, using such simple tools like: HMG, AI infantry, all kinds of vechiles (since they have 0 AT).
Deal with it, bro.
penal total veterancy at vet 3: +69% accuracy -23% incoming accuracy, -20% cool down, flare, hoorah
grenadier total veterancy at vet 3: +40% accuracy, -23% incoming accuracy, -20% cool down, medkit, 25% faster recharge on rifle nade.
the penal have a far better bonus. that 29% extra bonus make a big difference. The penal without the flamethrower can actually beat a vet 3 lmg grenadier at long range.
6 Jul 2016, 10:57 AM
#6
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
penal total veterancy at vet 3: +69% accuracy -23% incoming accuracy, -20% cool down, flare, hoorah
grenadier total veterancy at vet 3: +40% accuracy, -23% incoming accuracy, -20% cool down, medkit, 25% faster recharge on rifle nade.
the penal have a far better bonus. that 29% extra bonus make a big difference. The penal without the flamethrower can actually beat a vet 3 lmg grenadier at long range.
Nope, they have Zeal now, which is even more accuracy.
6 Jul 2016, 10:58 AM
#7
Posts: 673
penal total veterancy at vet 3: +69% accuracy -23% incoming accuracy, -20% cool down, flare, hoorah
grenadier total veterancy at vet 3: +40% accuracy, -23% incoming accuracy, -20% cool down, medkit, 25% faster recharge on rifle nade.
the penal have a far better bonus. that 29% extra bonus make a big difference. The penal without the flamethrower can actually beat a vet 3 lmg grenadier at long range.
So what? Grenadeers are common infantry, they cost less, don't need special tier (you will build super-cheap T1 anyway as Ostheer) they have snare and normal grenades...
Penals > Grens? That's fine. Such as Obers > Riflemans/Tommyrifles/IvanRifles. I don't see any problem with that. If your opponent using penals, again your best frieds are: HMGs, AI-infantry, all kinds of vechiles.
6 Jul 2016, 11:08 AM
#8
Posts: 4474
Ssshhh no one shall know my secret strat: guard motor t1 3 penal 2-3 guard 1 mortar fast t4 or fast T-70 in To T-34/85 spam and 1 su-85
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
6 Jul 2016, 11:08 AM
#9
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Grens has a native -9% received accuracy, but Penals have far greater squad sizes.
A side-effect of smaller-squad size is that some squad members have higher chance of being focus-fired upon (and dying faster). Thankfully, for LMG grens most of their damage output comes from the LMG. However, you have the reverse effect happening when you have 6-member penals being fired upon.
.. which is why you are going to really love Vickers LMGs when your friend comes back.
A side-effect of smaller-squad size is that some squad members have higher chance of being focus-fired upon (and dying faster). Thankfully, for LMG grens most of their damage output comes from the LMG. However, you have the reverse effect happening when you have 6-member penals being fired upon.
Nope, they have Zeal now, which is even more accuracy.
.. which is why you are going to really love Vickers LMGs when your friend comes back.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
6 Jul 2016, 11:55 AM
#10
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
it would be really cool for it to lose one of its defensive bonus and buff its zeal as it vets.
 | Playercard of Bo-Bobby Lion | |||||||||||||||
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6 Jul 2016, 13:16 PM
#11
Posts: 677
Well I posted several post on the very high accuracy of the Penal SVT combined with the veterancy bonuses and the problems it would create before the patch and some people didn't want to listen. It it nice to see that people are finally beginning to realize the issue.
Penal currently have 70%/65%/45%
with the vet bonuses it goes up to 1.18%/1.10%/0.76% being able to bypass defensive bonuses
a vet1 4 men squad (the same size most ostheer squads are) has even more accuracy 1.28%/1.19%/0.82%
Thing get really ridiculous when they get 2 LMGs a penal squad vet 3 with 2 vicker can take out a vet 5 lmg ober squad at max range and cover...
The weapon combines the ROF of semi automatic weapon with the accuracy of bolt action rifle and is simply OP...
Penal currently have 70%/65%/45%
with the vet bonuses it goes up to 1.18%/1.10%/0.76% being able to bypass defensive bonuses
a vet1 4 men squad (the same size most ostheer squads are) has even more accuracy 1.28%/1.19%/0.82%
Thing get really ridiculous when they get 2 LMGs a penal squad vet 3 with 2 vicker can take out a vet 5 lmg ober squad at max range and cover...
The weapon combines the ROF of semi automatic weapon with the accuracy of bolt action rifle and is simply OP...
6 Jul 2016, 13:29 PM
#12
Posts: 747 | Subs: 2
Well I posted several post on the very high accuracy of the Penal SVT combined with the veterancy bonuses and the problems it would create before the patch and some people didn't want to listen. It it nice to see that people are finally beginning to realize the issue.
Penal currently have 70%/65%/45%
with the vet bonuses it goes up to 1.18%/1.10%/0.76% being able to bypass defensive bonuses
a vet1 4 men squad (the same size most ostheer squads are) has even more accuracy 1.28%/1.19%/0.82%
Thing get really ridiculous when they get 2 LMGs a penal squad vet 3 with 2 vicker can take out a vet 5 lmg ober squad at max range and cover...
The weapon combines the ROF of semi automatic weapon with the accuracy of bolt action rifle and is simply OP...
I have yet to witness unstoppable penal blobs roaming around the map and overrun everything in their way.
| Playercard of RedT3rror | |||||||||||||||
|
6 Jul 2016, 15:20 PM
#13
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
While probably true, I feel like Penals' long-range accuracy needing to lose a few percentages is probably a more important issue. Their odds of beating LMG42 Grens at max-range without vet aren't bad despite how 240 MP + 60 Muni should be worth more than 300 MP.
6 Jul 2016, 19:04 PM
#14
Posts: 168
Oh boy here we go, something that just got buffed now must be nerfed because it's not useless anymore.
Reminder that light vehicle play does exist.
Reminder that you actually need to get them to vet 3.
Seriously, if it's OKW veterancy no one says anything but any other faction must be nerfed.
Reminder that light vehicle play does exist.
Reminder that you actually need to get them to vet 3.
Seriously, if it's OKW veterancy no one says anything but any other faction must be nerfed.
Of coursh
6 Jul 2016, 19:11 PM
#15
Posts: 168
penal total veterancy at vet 3: +69% accuracy -23% incoming accuracy, -20% cool down, flare, hoorah
grenadier total veterancy at vet 3: +40% accuracy, -23% incoming accuracy, -20% cool down, medkit, 25% faster recharge on rifle nade.
the penal have a far better bonus. that 29% extra bonus make a big difference. The penal without the flamethrower can actually beat a vet 3 lmg grenadier at long range.
Can penals snare? Do penals have a grenade? If you go grenadiers do you have do give up AT?
This type of linear X vs Y thought is what ruins balance. Going penals is a risk (light vehicles), the reward should be good AI.
Of coursh
6 Jul 2016, 19:27 PM
#16
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
They are powerful at vet 3 but the same time they are pure AI, whole tier is AI, they lack Cons' utility, models dropping like flies.
Penals means no mortar so it's a huge spac for HMG to use.
Do they synergize with Brits' weapon truck? Yes but it's problem with they truck, not Penals (make truck unable to supply teammates).
They win against Grens but at the same time they lose to PzGrens at all ranges and through all vet.
Even Vet 3 Obers (without LMG upgrade) vs Vet 3 Penals win vs them at long rang and close range so I'd say they are priced and act perfectly fine.
Penals means no mortar so it's a huge spac for HMG to use.
Do they synergize with Brits' weapon truck? Yes but it's problem with they truck, not Penals (make truck unable to supply teammates).
They win against Grens but at the same time they lose to PzGrens at all ranges and through all vet.
Even Vet 3 Obers (without LMG upgrade) vs Vet 3 Penals win vs them at long rang and close range so I'd say they are priced and act perfectly fine.
6 Jul 2016, 20:54 PM
#17
Posts: 1930
Can penals snare? Do penals have a grenade? If you go grenadiers do you have do give up AT?
This type of linear X vs Y thought is what ruins balance. Going penals is a risk (light vehicles), the reward should be good AI.
Penal get a flamethrower and the satchel. The both of those combine make penal one of the best garrison and anti-cover unit in the game. That's the penal's "grenade".
the only thing the penal doesn't get is the tank snare.
Even Vet 3 Obers (without LMG upgrade) vs Vet 3 Penals win vs them at long rang and close range so I'd say they are priced and act perfectly fine.
how close are we talking about? in my test the fights were very close. the penal were nearly matching a unit 100 mp more expensive with a similar role.
Oh boy here we go, something that just got buffed now must be nerfed because it's not useless anymore.
Reminder that light vehicle play does exist.
Reminder that you actually need to get them to vet 3.
Seriously, if it's OKW veterancy no one says anything but any other faction must be nerfed.
I am not saying to revert the penal back to their previous useless state. I am saying that are adjustment to be made.
6 Jul 2016, 21:52 PM
#18
Posts: 403
Nope, Penals are fine.
How about you use dem scout cars or dem MGs or dem panzer 2s? Too hard?
How about you use dem scout cars or dem MGs or dem panzer 2s? Too hard?
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
6 Jul 2016, 21:55 PM
#19
Posts: 4474
Nope, Penals are fine.penal are mostly fine until they pick any light mg then they become old ober
How about you use dem scout cars or dem MGs or dem panzer 2s? Too hard?
Here they are before and after they get lmg :
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
6 Jul 2016, 21:57 PM
#20
Posts: 297
penal are mostly fine until they pick any light mg then they become old ober
that happens to osttruppen and they dont even need vet
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