Relic; It's Time We Had That Talk

The devs have dodged the question on this thread enough to tell me that this basic element that was available day 1 with COH1 won't be in COH2 in any hurry - to me - and many others who like to match make with our map of choice, conditions of choice and players of choice, this is a bad thing and enough to keep me from playing given the current state of online play/match making.

If the dev's can't even acknowledge that this is an issue - COH2's multiplayer days are going to be quite short.

In all your anger you can't be arsed to read what devs posted here? They didn't dodge the question, in fact they answered it several times, saying that things like lobby and ladder were not only in their hand but also partly due to Steam. Of course it would have been much better, if lobby and ladder were there from the start, and its also their own fault to some extend. However, they are working on adding it, but can't give a date because third parties are involved....

Also, you CAN play any map of choice, with your friends, with any winning condition of choice. Go to "Online & Skirmish" -> "Custom game" -> "invite" -> ... add computers, choose map, change conditions however you like...

Now go into your corner and feel ashamed.

In all your anger you can't be arsed to read what devs posted here? They didn't dodge the question, in fact they answered it several times, saying that things like lobby and ladder were not only in their hand but also a part Steam. They are working on adding it, but can't give a date because third parties are involved....

Also, you CAN play any map of choice, with your friends, with any winning condition of choice. Go to "onling & skirmish" -> "Custom game" -> "invite" -> ... add computers, choose map, change conditions however you like...

Now go into your corner and feel ashamed.

No - that's lobby - as in chat - and ladder - as in ranked result from a game.

There's no mention AT ALL of what people want - which I was particular in thoroughly detailing.

And yes - your weak example of "It's already there" is only applicable IF YOU KNOW THE PEOPLE AND THEY ARE ON YOUR STEAM FRIENDS LIST.

Congratulations - you can now play multiplayer with the 2 other people you know that have the game.

Don't be deliberately ignorant in simplifying the discussion to suit your narrow point of view.

You know how the match making worked in COH1 - we want match making with RANDOM players that can JOIN your game - thats all players want.

So maybe you should check your own attitude at the door - along with your high horse.

Then again - maybe you've never played COH and have no idea as to what I'm talking about.....never know....there's a lot of uniformed people making arguments these days.

I've been around vCoH since 2007 and am an integral part of the community, so i know how buggy and unbalanced it all started. But, i don't want to start and argue from that position, cause i am not sitting on my "high horse", just listing facts.

You miss, that COH1 was run on RelicOnline, which was completely in Relics hands, but COH2 is run through Steam. Thus, some functionality is not only in their hand. Lobby and Ladder are worked on, and its partly Relics fault that they are not there, yet. But due to the fact that Steam is involved as an uncertainty factor, there's no way they can give a date.

Despite this, i was giving you the example, showing you that the ingame functionality is already built in. Go, join Steam groups for COH, which have hundrets of players in there.
It's just about adding an easier platform, which is in the process.

Am i happy about all this? No! ... Is it as bad as people make it? No, not at all!

This thread feels like its where you let your steam out after a bad day at work or smth.

I've been around vCoH since 2007 and am an integral part of the community, so i know how buggy and unbalanced it all started. But, i don't want to start and argue from that position, cause i am not sitting on my "high horse", just listing facts.

You miss, that COH1 was run on RelicOnline, which was completely in Relics hands, but COH2 is run through Steam. Thus, some functionality is not only in their hand. Lobby and Ladder are worked on, and its partly Relics fault that they are not their, yet. But due to the fact that Steam is involved as an uncertainty factor, there's no way they can give a date.

Despite this, i was giving you the example, showing you that the ingame functionality is already built in. Go, join Steam groups for COH, which have hundrets of players in there.
It's just about adding an easier platform, which is in the process.

Am i happy about all this? No! ... Is it as bad as people make it? No, not at all!

I know too mate - its buggy - and so was COH 1 - and they do their best to fix that - with balance and patches etc.

They will get that right - I know (or at least hope) they will.

Thats why I don't discuss that as an issue - i.e. balance, or pathing etc - there are loads of bugs and we all know that Relic is working hard on it.

For me however - all that hard work is useless if I - and most other players who like the match making ability of COH 1 - can't use those great new balanced units in a game with random players on a specific map with specific starting/end conditions.

I guess because COH1 came with it - we simply expected it to be there - as if it was something that was a basic core part of the game.

So to find it missing - it's caused a lot of anxiety in players who want/like it.

Plus we haven't had a specific "Yes you'll have the ability to do exactly that" from the Dev's - they never directly say it - which causes even more confusion and anxiety - and ultimately puts potential players off buying the game.

I think we're all on the same team here people - we all want a great game and experience.

I really fear that if they don't have this ability in the game - then only those that truly love COH2 will be those that continue to play it in the long term - which isn't a good thing if you don't have a large amount of players.

However, people need to stop using the entitlement argument. I am sorry, but as consumers, we are entitled to features advertised in the product.

What was advertised that's not in the final game?

I think it's pretty clear that on this thread, the ppl venting against are horribly outnumbered by the ppl in support of the devs.

And personally, I think the devs are doing a very good job

Keep it up

What was advertised that's not in the final game?

Leaderboards. Says it right there on the Steam page.

Leaderboards. Says it right there on the Steam page.

It does? It says it has Steam Statistics (I have Steam set to Swedish so I don't know if they have it translated wrong) which would be this http://steamcommunity.com/stats/231430/achievements

Under Key Features it doesn't mention it either, what am I missing?

Let me start this post of by saying I love CoH2. I already put hundreds of hours in, and still to play it. It's damn addictive, and simply put: a very good game.

That said I think the review of PCGamer nailed it:

"Company of Heroes 2 is the USSR of real-time strategy games: huge, powerful and just a little bit broken."

- Not even gonna bother discussing the missing leaderboards again: Where is the lobby? Where is the crucial social aspect of a game that makes it shine in multiplayer? You guys knew this was important, cause you did it in CoH1 already. It's inexcusable to release the game without these key features. It can cause loads of players to stop playing and never return meaning it can hurt the active playerbase and thus the community.
- Bugs. Random crashes to desktop followed by some sort of weird update on Steam. Loads of players encountered this, and it makes the game feel unpolished.
- Clearly OP stuff like strafe that was already OP in beta. You guys have years and years of experience balancing games and yet you didn't spot this glaringly OP ability. Tbh it's beyond me how that's possible.
- No form of anticheat. This is just asking for map and drophackers to reenter the scene. And that stuff REALLY ruins the experience.


I'd like to repeat: I'm a big fan of this game and it is not my intention to moan cause I love it.
I do feel, however, we should be realistic here: this game is unpolished. It has potential, but there is a lot missing and we should all hope players will give this game the time it needs to come to its full glory.

And a last note to Noun: I understand that giving the community an ETA and then breaking that promise is something to be avoided. Hardly saying anything about what you're working on to avoid disappointment isn't exactly much better though. In the case of the missing leaderboards I'd recommend a big banner on the coh2 site giving some form of eta so people stick around and wait for it before moving on to other games that do support competition.

Edit: Btw Noun I remember your comparison of the leaderboards situation to ordering pizza. Basically you blamed a 3rd party company for them not being in the game. The truth is, however, that Relic already got a few extra months after Sega took over. You guys even commented on how it gave you the time to polish the game further. Yet, not even these three months were enough to get the leaderboards in?
Makes me wonder what the original plan was if Sega had never taken over and the original THQ release date was met...

With the current way matchmaking works/setup ---- couldn’t care less about how well balanced or how well the game works online.... if I can't play the kind of match setup I want.

I (and I am sure many others ) want to just fire the game up (not worry about having to have any friends on or wait for some m8's to come online), select a map, select victory conditions and hit find match (what is so freaking hard about giving us this option).

The only option available today for causal play is driving me (and maybe some others) away from the game. The one side benefit of the way mm it is today --- COH2 is cutting less and less into my golf time and beers at the clubhouse.

So Relic, just keep up with vagueness and the not directly answering this mm question. Well time to get going and play.....(you guessed it) some golf.

Recent link explaining how mm works --- http://www.companyofheroes.com/news/coh-2-matchmaking

It does? It says it has Steam Statistics (I have Steam set to Swedish so I don't know if they have it translated wrong) which would be this http://steamcommunity.com/stats/231430/achievements

Under Key Features it doesn't mention it either, what am I missing?

You're missing this

You're missing this

Seems to not be there for the Swedish Steam Beta version, odd, probably an oversight or a bug on my end, Steam seems to like bugs lately (or work at all at times).
Thanks for the screenshot.

You know it would be really interesting to see how many hours anybody complaining has put into playing the game. I've already put in more than enough to have justified the purchase and honestly I could say that if I stopped playing right now I'd be content that I got my money's worth out of the game, only a month after release and without all the features that some seem to be clamoring over. Everyone just needs to give it time and realize that the devs are working on what needs to be done and just leave it at that.

You're missing this

Well, that is a pretty valid complaint.

That being said if you really care about leader boards you might as well find somewhere on the internet to compare the size of your genitals to people around the world; meanwhile the real men will play in tournaments to determine whose is bigger who is best.

You know it would be really interesting to see how many hours anybody complaining has put into playing the game. I've already put in more than enough to have justified the purchase and honestly I could say that if I stopped playing right now I'd be content that I got my money's worth out of the game, only a month after release and without all the features that some seem to be clamoring over. Everyone just needs to give it time and realize that the devs are working on what needs to be done and just leave it at that.

410 Hours, level 91 (not that it means anything) 460ish automatch games so yes I believe I have probably got my monies worth and that to some extent I have enjoyed the game. I keep coming back in the hope that they have changed things or there is a new patch to fix broken mechanics but alas tis not to be. I am stopping for a bit now because the love I had for COH 1 just isn't in this one yet (5000 or so hours and thousands of games). I am a HARDCORE gamer I live to play games, sad I know but its true, it is my major passion in life. The ball had been dropped so badly on this game its just unbelievable and if a lobby isn't in EXTREMELY soon the casual player base is dead within a month or 2. As a result he game dies with just a few hundred hardcore fans left.

That being said if you really care about leader boards you might as well find somewhere on the internet to compare the size of your genitals to people around the world; meanwhile the real men will play in tournaments to determine whose is bigger who is best.

Ummm, no?

Leaderboards are extremely valuable content. If you can't see that there's a bigger problem here.

Leaderboards are good for perspective. Yes, what a horrible thing I want, to compare myself to the top players.

Leaderboards and Stats are valuable tools. They let people see how much they are improving, they let them see how good their opponents are so they don't get unrealistic expectations from strategies and improvements, they're very important for players new to the game who want to PvP.

Leaderboards aren't about a dick measuring contest. Though of course that comes into it from a competitive aspect.

They're about improvement. Pride. Learning. Encouragement. Overall satisfaction. Leaderboards have a huge impact on how people perceive the game, not only from the PvP perspective but from "Is this game good?" perspective. This is the first RTS game I've ever played that's launched without global leaderboards. Especially such a high profile one. Except maybe WarCraft 3, I can't quite remember if that has them.

And this is after Relic had extra time to "polish" the game.

Anyways, I'm not going to go off on it now. All I can say, Leaderboards are far more important than just trying to see who has the biggest dick. They go hand in hand with other statistics too, which are important for improvement.

Uhmmmmm'



Why NO PATCH

While I understand that people love automatch stats and leaderboards. I believe they are extremely over valued because of reasons I've explained before in the past.

Mostly that it's one and done not best of three, you can play at certain times to avoid certain players and a lot of the time when you run into an opponent you may never play them again.

I've never used them to seed any tournament I've been involved in.

Better meter sticks are weekly tournaments as is a proper league where you play everyone a few times.

In all fairness, the people that ventilate their criticism are the ones that pressure Relic to pressure Steam to make things happen. The likes of OnkelSam, Rogers etc. are not exactly helpful in developing and improving the game, because their contentment with the current pace of the development does not speed things up, nor does it give the Relic developers an idea of what needs to be changed/added rapidly.