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russian armor

USF didn't need a mortar.

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25 Jun 2016, 00:11 AM
#61
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 611

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jun 2016, 17:01 PMGenObi
I concur, a smaller 60 mm moarter would be fine or some nerfs to damage.

Iam gonna be honest, this is text book example of bad design. Units like the WC50 and Combat Engineers shouldnt be in a doc but come in as standard units in tier 0.

For Wc 51 unit give them rangers in that doc. For the combat engiees76 mm sherman.

Your units choices from the start would be Rears Comb Engiees, Rifles and Truck. Think of the openings! Need close quarter combat with flamer get a engiee, have a open area ? Get a truck. The flexibility that is suppose to be there would be represented by the unit choices to tackle different scenarios.

Combat engiees and trucks wouldnt change the dynamic of the match much other then adding options then just rifles.


+1 . Exactly.

Usf core design is simply f*#@ed. It is really strange how they arrived at the decision to omit certain units and abilities when they had coh1 formula to reference.

I haven't used morter much cause it is not my playstyle but i have to say i was suprised how quickly it fires.

Adding morter to t0 was weak and lazy and just a refusal to accept that usf should have flamers somewhere in core buildings.
25 Jun 2016, 01:17 AM
#63
avatar of Carlos Danger

Posts: 362

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2016, 01:00 AMArclyte
USF only being able to make Riflemen for the first 5 minutes was boring
As indicated in my previous post, US flexibility is in upgrades and teching choices, not opening units.

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2016, 01:00 AMArclyte
and made dealing with MGs in team games a pain in the ass
It's, uh, supposed to be a pain in the ass - for every faction. Last I checked the game is supposed to be challenging.

Usf core design is simply f*#@ed. It is really strange how they arrived at the decision to omit certain units and abilities when they had coh1 formula to reference.
CoH1's US faction was more-or-less succeeded by the Soviets. CoH2 USF is basically its own thing.
25 Jun 2016, 02:35 AM
#64
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692



I guess fighting the copy/pasted version of the wehr mortar suddenly makes the unit "OP".

why am I not surprised
25 Jun 2016, 02:47 AM
#65
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2016, 02:35 AMArclyte


I guess fighting the copy/pasted version of the wehr mortar suddenly makes the unit "OP".

why am I not surprised


Ostheer Mortar Reload: 4
USF Mortar Reload: 2.4

USF:
angle_scatter: 6f
distance_scatter_max: 5f

Ostheer:
angle_scatter: 10f
distance_scatter_max: 8f
25 Jun 2016, 03:27 AM
#66
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

USF having a mortar is not the problem. This new mortar would have been overpower on any faction.
25 Jun 2016, 04:05 AM
#67
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951

There is a M2 60mm weapon profile in the game files. I assume it's the version for the Balance Preview Mod.

80 dmg
4.5 sec reload
12 angle scatter
8 max scatter

I suggest using this profile, and adjusting cost to 230 Manpower and 5 Population.

It's like giving OKW a non-doctrinal MG34: it's cheaper and has performance to match its cost, but it gets the job done, and leads you to find other solutions for anti-infantry (which are plentiful in the OKW lineup). I would say that the USF mortar should follow suit: it's decent against static weapons, but for real indirect fire support, you can try the pack howitzer or the Scott.
25 Jun 2016, 04:44 AM
#68
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 976

The mortar add a lot of fun to the Us faction, but it's too powerful.
it's rof should be tone down by 20 % and it's cost reduce proportionally.

Thanks Relic , great patch !
25 Jun 2016, 04:44 AM
#69
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2

And it should be moved to the Lt tier.
25 Jun 2016, 04:51 AM
#70
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 976

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2016, 04:44 AMBudwise
And it should be moved to the Lt tier.


No, they are basic tools that should be at T0.
Even more i would also add a recon jeep at T0.

:)

25 Jun 2016, 06:29 AM
#71
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2

LOL, just give them everything at T0. Rifles with Zookas, Nades, AT Nades, Smoke, BAR, and LMG, with a mortar now in case you're so retarded you can't flank an MG with the above. Sounds good!

Imagine if Volks got all that LOL, people would riot in the streets.
25 Jun 2016, 07:02 AM
#72
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

Locked it behind Lt/Cpt tech like MG34 plz, vanilla factions can only dream of this level of flexibility.
25 Jun 2016, 07:58 AM
#73
avatar of IA3 - HH

Posts: 289

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jun 2016, 15:42 PMwuff
I don't understand why this unit was added.

The PAK howie is excellent, the USF didn't need another IDF unit.


agree agree agree
25 Jun 2016, 08:05 AM
#74
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2016, 06:29 AMBudwise
LOL, just give them everything at T0. Rifles with Zookas, Nades, AT Nades, Smoke, BAR, and LMG, with a mortar now in case you're so retarded you can't flank an MG with the above. Sounds good!

Imagine if Volks got all that LOL, people would riot in the streets.


haha zooks and nades with ambulance are soo stronk in early game relic pls delete this mortar cuz rifle spam should be only viable early strategy. who cares that okw get mg, stg packege, panzerfaust and panzershrek is still here and they even add LeFH to okw. let's be serious this mortar need to be like soviet or wermaht mortar and thats it.. BUT bu.t granade smoke !! Relic nerf all granades range when u are suppress so free smoke now from mortar isnt crime i guess
25 Jun 2016, 08:24 AM
#75
avatar of Beinhard

Posts: 161

Should put it in line with other mortars, its low scatter is hillariously good.

The T0 mortar opened up a lot of interesting choices, instead of the boring 3 x rifles opening :3
25 Jun 2016, 10:21 AM
#76
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

It should be behind LT tier, even the new mg34 for okw is locked behind tech so why isnt this?. Early game counter for USF against mortar is grenades and smokes. You guys have to remember one of the reasons USF riflemen are the best mainline inf in the game is because they are supposed to be less reliant on support weapons like OKW.

Where as a wher for example should be more reliant on support weapons thus, why grenadiers are weaker and they get good early game support weapons like mg42 and mortars
25 Jun 2016, 10:43 AM
#77
avatar of shake4parkinson

Posts: 116

Permanently Banned
Miragefla had a hard time winning with howi only so he thought "why not add another mortar unit that outdamages/ranges everyone else :Dd
25 Jun 2016, 11:43 AM
#78
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jun 2016, 10:21 AMAlphrum
It should be behind LT tier, even the new mg34 for okw is locked behind tech so why isnt this?. Early game counter for USF against mortar is grenades and smokes. You guys have to remember one of the reasons USF riflemen are the best mainline inf in the game is because they are supposed to be less reliant on support weapons like OKW.

Where as a wher for example should be more reliant on support weapons thus, why grenadiers are weaker and they get good early game support weapons like mg42 and mortars



the problem with locking in LT is that then 3 rifle start becomes inevitable. even having a mortar in t0 still doesn't really help players grow out of 3 rifle strat.

for this problem, i want to resurrect the old suggestion made by some that LT and Capt tech should be cheaper, and put m20/m15aa and stuart behind another pay wall.

its kinda weird how you have indirect fire on both tiers... on a most mobile (meant to be) army. either way, the mortar need to change to not overlap with pack howi.
25 Jun 2016, 12:26 PM
#79
avatar of Domine

Posts: 500

But 3 rifle start is still, and has always been the norm. It's just that now the 3 rifle start is complemented by a 'definitely not op' mortar that USF always wanted.

Now they have the best mortar, the best mainline inf and the best mg at their disposal.

Nobody will ever give up on riflestarts because rifles are so good.
25 Jun 2016, 12:36 PM
#80
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

yea, it will be nice to see if USF player can deviate from that 3 rifle start. i mean, AssEngi work in very few maps.

even in 'spamfest no skillz' 3v3+, 3 rifle start is a must in real games. that breaks my heart.
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