panthers reload speed

Really? I am just noticed that my vet 2 tank with accuracy bonus starts to hit infantry more often.

Okay than, if relic really wanted to make comet more effective against bigger targets why it recieves accuracy not penetration?

Accuracy only affects "heatseeking projectilees" that will follow the target anywhere it goes. This includes panzershrecks; it also includes small-arms fire which, generally, have a very large accuracy values.

If you take the Comet, and stack all the accuracy bonuses on top (commander & vet), you get about 6% accuracy vs infantry at mid-long range. However, from experience, you must have noticed that the Comet hits a lot more often than 6% of the time. That's solely because of a combination of very good scatter with decent AoE.

This means that the accuracy-based part of the hit-roll is unimportant.

It has the best special ability for tanks
It has free armor uprgrade at vet 2

What, couldn't get them to vet without a schreck blob?

It has the best special ability for tanks
It has free armor uprgrade at vet 2

What, couldn't get them to vet without a schreck blob?

Talking about wehr panther fool,where does shreck blob come into this?

I've long maintained that if this unit gets a rate-of-fire buff (which I'm not opposed to seeing) it needs to get a penetration nerf. Just giving it a better rate-of-fire will make it way too strong against heavy tanks.

Talking about wehr panther fool,where does shreck blob come into this?

You're implying that wher never blobs schrecks.

You're implying that wher never blobs schrecks.

No its not possible unless u want to lose.

I've long maintained that if this unit gets a rate-of-fire buff (which I'm not opposed to seeing) it needs to get a penetration nerf. Just giving it a better rate-of-fire will make it way too strong against heavy tanks.

Thats reasonable,penetration of panther is overkill anyway.

No its not possible unless u want to lose.

What a blatant lie on your part.

I think a lot of the discussion around the Panther comes down to players wanting to shoehorn it into something you should build every game. It could certainly use some adjustment to differentiate it from the Stug and Panzer IV (move some of the reload vet to vet 0, remove some of the armour/health vet for vet 2 reload, or reduce MG DPS for better AT etc.) but I think it should be kept as Ostheer/OKW's counter to heavy and super-heavy tanks (Pershing, Comet, IS-2, ISU-152, and hopefully Churchill/KV-1/KV-2 at some point).

What a blatant lie on your part.

I don't think a squad costing 340/120 with a 34 manpower reinforcement cost is exactly spammable, especially given they don't have great anti-infantry abilities when upgraded. It's hard to blob with 1 or 2 squads.

I agree. Axis players see Panther as this anti every tank monster while in the reality it should only be built against heavy armour, against which it performs extremely well due to its reliable penetration. Against medium tanks however, Panther's rate of fire makes it ineffective. You really are better off building PzIV and StuGs respectively.

I agree. Axis players see Panther as this anti every tank monster while in the reality it should only be built against heavy armour, against which it performs extremely well due to its reliable penetration. Against medium tanks however, Panther's rate of fire makes it ineffective. You really are better off building PzIV and StuGs respectively.

Which leaves the Panther exactly one unit to counter: The IS-2.

KV-1, KV-2, KV-8, ISU-152, Churchill, Croc, AVRE, Pershing can all be penetrated easily by StuGs and still somewhat by Panzer IVs. Take into account that there are usually more Panzer IVs and/ or StuGs available and the Panther serves no purpose.

What Axis players want is a vehicle that fulfills its AT role. Not a vehicle that counters one unit in the vehicle bracket and performs meh versus the others. It´s weakness (Ostheer one) is the lack of good AI. Better than what SU-85, Firely and Jackson have yet those have 60 range and are mobile AT guns.

Which leaves the Panther exactly one unit to counter: The IS-2.

KV-1, KV-2, KV-8, ISU-152, Churchill, Croc, AVRE, Pershing can all be penetrated easily by StuGs and still somewhat by Panzer IVs. Take into account that there are usually more Panzer IVs and/ or StuGs available and the Panther serves no purpose.

So, basically, we need to buff armor of these tanks to make everybody happy.

Which leaves the Panther exactly one unit to counter: The IS-2.
[...]What Axis players want is a vehicle that fulfills its AT role. Not a vehicle that counters one unit in the vehicle bracket and performs meh versus the others. It´s weakness (Ostheer one) is the lack of good AI. Better than what SU-85, Firely and Jackson have yet those have 60 range and are mobile AT guns.

But they do. Use StuG III against medium and lower armour targets and build a Panther if you need something to help you against heavies or to chase down/ harass the enemy.

Also frontal armour allows Panther to withstand a bit more than any other medium tank. I don't remember exactly but I remember that only Jackson, Comet and Firefly are capable of reliable penetration (pun not intended) and new SU-85?

So, basically, we need to buff armor of these tanks to make everybody happy.

For an increased cost, yes. Then the Panther would fill a role that would be needed.

KV-1 and KV-2 could get a buff without a price increase though.

What Axis players want is a vehicle that fulfills its AT role. Not a vehicle that counters one unit in the vehicle bracket and performs meh versus the others. It´s weakness (Ostheer one) is the lack of good AI. Better than what SU-85, Firely and Jackson have yet those have 60 range and are mobile AT guns.

The panzer IV is great AI and even more so at vet II.

When we look at a tank we should look not singularly at cost, penetration and AI, but the whole combination. Panther has excellent penetration, is as fast as t-34, has almost the same frontal armor as heavy tanks. the fact that it is adequate AI is just icing on the cake. And let us not forget that terrific vet 1 ability and vet 2 free armor.


It is a big investment, but one that will pay off significantly more than say a t-34/85 or EZ8 if it survives to vet, which with its speed and armor, should not be hard.

So. I set up my elgato and ran some tests on panther vs comet for the sake of perspective.

Vet 0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvK-uke-ZwI
Vet 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlnjt9peX4s

I have found at vet 0 comets lose to okw panthers 6/10 times 1v1, at vet 2 comets lose to panthers 7/8 times 1v1 and at max vet okw panthers win their 1v1 engagements against max vet comets a 100% of the time (sample of 2).

That's heads up and some of the engagments were a lot closer than expected. Comets also have great mobility and the accuracy on the move is much better than the panthers. Panthers blitz abilities have not been accounted for. These tests are in a vacuum and when the rest of the faction is added the winner of the engagement is most likely to be the better supported tank.

It's also worth noting that comets vet much faster due to their generalist damage profile.

To me, it's less about performance and more about cost. I don't care how something performs as long as it's cost is in line. For example, I would like to see the cost of the OKW AAHT come down around 25-30 fuel so that it's vulnerability is accounted for in it's price and it's not always a losing purchase. I would also like to see the cost of OH panther brought down to 150 fuel and the OKW panther brought down to 175 fuel and have the stats left alone. Or give the panther's Vet 2 armour and health increase back to it's Vet 0, like it was originally and adjust the cost upwards to reflect this.

I would also like to see the cost of OH panther brought down to 150 fuel and the OKW panther brought down to 175 fuel and have the stats left alone. Or give the panther's Vet 2 armour and health increase back to it's Vet 0, like it was originally and adjust the cost upwards to reflect this.

150 fuel, only 20 more from a t-34/85, while being infinitely more effective. No.

150 fuel, only 20 more from a t-34/85, while being infinitely more effective. No.

I wouldn't say infinitely more effective. The t34/85 has a much better DPS against inf and is currently much cheaper than a panther. It's 110 mp cheaper, 45 fuel cheaper, it 1v1s p4's with ease and if it catches a Panther out of position It has a good chance to kill it.

Obviously it doesn't 1v1 a panther but it's not that far off.

Test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD9kTezuHvs

T-34 has a chance of killing a Panther? No wonder you are asking for buffs.

T-34 has a chance of killing a Panther? No wonder you are asking for buffs.

If the T34/85 gets side armour it wins 3/5. With any type of support it should be able to take the panther. Guards buttoning and a rushing t34/85 = a dead panther that probably didn't get a shot off.

A T34/85 performs excepionally well considering that it is discounted 25% and has better AI. It also wipes away any other axis armour and it's pretty fast.