Small balnce change about IR halftrack

Right now this Half track offers too much for the price, a free wallhack, combined with a stuka zu fuss it is the nightmare of combined arms.

We may tweak it a bit in the way of not allowing the IR haltrack to "spot" through buildings, so that way you could actually counter this halftrack who is most of the time behind a building;

I've created a small paint schema to put image on my word http://imgur.com/D1TZeeN

(of course same change for the valentine)



EDIT: please mods if you can correct the title

Valentine pays 90 fuel for this wallhack, when okw gets it almost for free by stock.

This unit should not be in game. It pure negation of real sight.

But since we have it, it should work with a cooldown.

15sec of searching - 45sec of cooldown.

This unit should not be in game. It pure negation of real sight.

But since we have it, it should work with a cooldown.

15sec of searching - 45sec of cooldown.

OKW lacks sighting tools, you get the kubel that get isnta gibbed past 6 min, no sniper, you are forced to go puma (panther command) if you want LOS advantage

But IR halftrack is too much, seeing through buildings is OP

OKW lacks sighting tools, you get the kubel that get isnta gibbed past 6 min, no sniper, you are forced to go puma (panther command) if you want LOS advantage

But IR halftrack is too much, seeing through buildings is OP

Jaegers, Luchs, JPIV, flares, vetted Falsch, command PZV, Kubel.

For me it does not look like OKW lacks anything. Only typical recon.

Jaegers, Luchs, JPIV, flares, vetted Falsch, command PZV, Kubel.

For me it does not look like OKW lacks anything. Only typical recon.

Half of your proposition are doctrinal the aim of this change is to reduce frustation of being seen without any change to be sneaky and to force different placement of this halftrack , if we tweak the halftrack right it will not be so OP

Unit would make perfect sense in Overwatch Doctrine. Not sure if it needs to be part of the core army. Would much rather have a regular 250 or 251 halftrack.

Half of your proposition are doctrinal the aim of this change is to reduce frustation of being seen without any change to be sneaky and to force different placement of this halftrack , if we tweak the halftrack right it will not be so OP

And what are non-doc ways of recon for UKF, OST or USF?

And what are non-doc ways of recon for UKF, OST or USF?

It's not the aim of this topic I just want to see a solid change to this unit for now

But for ost you get the sniper and the mighty 222
UKF you get the sniper,tommies enhanced LOS (small but something) command vehicule FREE recon, flare on the arty doc and some other doc recon
USF you get m20, pathfinders, rifleman with the recon doc (not sure about doc name) major recon and vetted stuart

Abiluty must cost some ammo and have duration like overflght

this is a 3v3+ issue, its fine, if not UP in 1v1 and 2v2

It's not the aim of this topic I just want to see a solid change to this unit for now

But for ost you get the sniper and the mighty 222
UKF you get the sniper,tommies enhanced LOS (small but something) command vehicule FREE recon, flare on the arty doc and some other doc recon
USF you get m20, pathfinders, rifleman with the recon doc (not sure about doc name) major recon and vetted stuart

He DID ask what the non-doctrinal ways of recon are. (Designate command vehicle is doctrinal, Airlanding officer is doctrinal) and so is most of what you suggested USF uses as recon. Plus most of your suggestions are worse than having a free wallhack behind a wall of fire, as you have to move the unit close enough to have LoS.

As for what should be done to the IR Half-track, I agree that it either should be moved as a doctrinal unit, or increase it's cost and make the recon an active ability with cooldown, with the addition of ít not piercing buildings and other objects that might block infrared-rays.

Attached is a picture of the effect of infrared on structures. As you can see, it does not penetrate buildings (Which is to say, you cannot see anything behind the building.
Show Spoiler

With the IRHT, OKW has the best sighting tools available, bar none. Without the IRHT it is difficult to say which faction is the best (UKF, OKW, OST or Soviets). However, I know for sure that USF are the plebs of stock scouting options.

While I like Shanka's suggestion, I have a feeling it might not be easy to implement. Thus, Australian Magic's suggestion comes as a strong second.

Now, regarding the stock IRHT, also consider that OKW is also getting stock MGs. Now, can somebody inform me how they plan on flanking those MG34s in the next patch?

For reference, here I am listing all non-doc options for all factions.

USF
M20 (50 - 60 range depending on Vet).
- Dies to 1-2 shots
- Costs 340 MP to replace
- Unsuitable for late-game

Stuart (requires Vet2)
- Good luck replacing that Vet when the Stuart dies

AT gun
- Vet1
- It's very clunky to use as a spotter

Major recon
- Difficult to aim (have to move major)
- A single pass is definitely not enough to give vision for the USF paper forces

UKF
Pyrotechnic supplies Tommies
- Stacks with Vet1 bonus
- Highly recommended
- Easily replaceable
- (just never use the 25pdr ability; it sucks)

Sniper
- Also gets Vet that allows it to spot even further

AEC
- The best unit to escort a Firefly fleet
- Churchill is for plebs D:

Tank Commanders
- Sight range 35 -> 45 (Cromwell, Comet)

Universal Carrier (next patch)
- Vet1 replaced by +10 sight range

OKW
Kubel
- Useful for the first pushes
- 360° always-on maphax at Vet1
- Not easy to replace once dead

Puma
- Best AT light vehicle in the game, bar none
- Easy to replace

Volks grenadiers
- Vet4.
- Pioneer-like sight-range on the most spammable unit in the game.
- What could go wrong?
- Ever wondered why Volksblobs are always able to home in on your tanks? That's why.

JP4
- 45 sight range at Vet0
- Self-spotting at Vet2
- The true wonderchild of CoH2

IRHT
- The topic of this thread.
- Duh.

OST
Scout Car
- Great sight range (insane with doctrinal scopes)
- Durable, easy to replace

Pioneers
- Helps avoid an MG ambush but little beyond that

Sniper
- It's the most frequently encountered unit in OST arsenal

Soviets
Flares
- Sniper
- Mortar
- Tripwire door-flares

T70
- Recon mode
- There aren't many other worthwhile vehicles in the soviet fleet; easy to replace.

SU-85
- Cone-of-sight

this is a 3v3+ issue, its fine, if not UP in 1v1 and 2v2

Seeing how 3v3's and 4v4's in a week made for almost half the games in 125-250 ranking and 250-500 ranking, and nearly 75% of the played matches in 500+ ranking, this is an issue that cannot just be sweeped under the rug and dismissed.

I used http://coh2chart.com/ as my source.

i see the ir ht as a frequent topic on the forums here

yet i dont remember seeing it used for a long, long while

Seeing how 3v3's and 4v4's in a week made for almost half the games in 125-250 ranking and 250-500 ranking, and nearly 75% of the played matches in 500+ ranking, this is an issue that cannot just be sweeped under the rug and dismissed.

the thing is that 3v3 and 4v4 maae for 0% of the competetive games and you balance for the competetive modes. you cannot change units because of that.
imo, they should reduce fuel income in 3v3 and 4v4 slightly, would make these modes more balanced

the thing is that 3v3 and 4v4 maae for 0% of the competetive games and you balance for the competetive modes. you cannot change units because of that.
imo, they should reduce fuel income in 3v3 and 4v4 slightly, would make these modes more balanced

The IRHT costs only 200 manpower. Reducing fuel income will only make manpower cheaper. Thus, reducing fuel income will make spamming (i.e., replacing IRHT) even more trivial than it currently is (and even more difficult/risky to take down)*

If the issue is truly how it will affect competitive modes, from the responses in this thread, we have gathered that:
- IRHT is rarely ever used in 1v1, to begin with
- Thus, any nerf to the IRHT will NOT affect competitive modes

Now, I rephrase my question:
- This unit is obviously broken on some very popular modes
- A fix to the unit already exists (e..g, add a cooldown; require user intervention)
- Fixing the unit will NOT affect competitive modes (as we have already established)
- Is there any single reason to red-light such a change?

* Reducing fuel income will also make Volks-spamming, Mortar-Pit-spamming all that more potent.

My proposition is only a soft nerf who will force OKW players to put this halftrack in a clever and EXPOSED way, and not behind a building, untouchable, while giving a chance or counter to this map hack

Best spotting unit in the whole game- invisible vet two jagpanzer

My proposition is only a soft nerf who will force OKW players to put this halftrack in a clever and EXPOSED way, and not behind a building, untouchable, while giving a chance or counter to this map hack

Over half the search cone will be blocked then. On many maps it'll be useless.