Give them 5 Stg upgrade once you unluck tier3 (with p4). Now they scale well if you upgrade them.
Having good scaling unit that outscales units that pay for their scalability is stupid, so I think this is good idea
Assault Grenadier Tweaks
13 Jun 2016, 18:48 PM
#21
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
13 Jun 2016, 19:08 PM
#22
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Give them 5 Stg upgrade once you unluck tier3 (with p4). Now they scale well if you upgrade them.
Having good scaling unit that outscales units that pay for their scalability is stupid, so I think this is good idea
It shouldn't be impossible to make it work. With veterancy, the "resource" is the time it takes to get that vet, and so, it shouldn't be overpowered for AGs to compete against upgraded infantry with only vet if the time it takes them to get that vet is long enough to justify it.
TL;DR Increase XP requirements to nerf AGs in compensation for their vet alone competing with upgraded units if it turns out to be a problem.
I'd personally doubt it will be though, all CQC units have some trouble once upgraded weapon proliferation hits and take a bit more micro to be commanded right, just AGs are particularly not worthwhile to do so at that point and they even have Sprint to ease commanding them right!
13 Jun 2016, 19:20 PM
#23
Posts: 1891
IMO their SMGs should be more effective at range as they get vet, so you can use them in cover.
Give them very good veterancy, and nerf the call-in Stug because that things an annoying panic button
Give them very good veterancy, and nerf the call-in Stug because that things an annoying panic button
The Fascisti Will Pay.
14 Jun 2016, 00:05 AM
#24
Posts: 1216
I'd rather they get the kind of buffs that make em less susceptible to dying rather than just making them more powerful. The more buffs you give them, the less reason to use stock units for similar purpose.
The biggest problem is they have zero anti-tank usage. Something like a stun attack would do well since no Ostheer units have it (TWP used to but not anymore). Perhaps a clone of Tank Hunter Tactics' grenades at vet1?
Or if AT role is out of the question, then give them flamer and/or demo as upgrade which makes them work closer to Penals (or actually closer to Urban Assault Panzergrenadiers).
The biggest problem is they have zero anti-tank usage. Something like a stun attack would do well since no Ostheer units have it (TWP used to but not anymore). Perhaps a clone of Tank Hunter Tactics' grenades at vet1?
Or if AT role is out of the question, then give them flamer and/or demo as upgrade which makes them work closer to Penals (or actually closer to Urban Assault Panzergrenadiers).
14 Jun 2016, 03:22 AM
#25
Posts: 194
Assault grens suffer the same way penal battalions do: they are incapable of handling any vehicles. Even buffs to vet won't help that.
Assault grens getting some sort of AT would overshadow grens pretty solidly while also buffing one commander significantly.
I wonder how feasible it would be if instead of assault grens being a call-in, it was an upgrade for Grens. Add 1 man to a gren squad and replace their loadout with mp40s. (And I guess swap rifle nades for model 24s since they don't have rifles.) Keeping fausts wouldn't be a problem there.
Neither do Obers or Stormtroops but they still do good in their AT role. Penals will be really strong in next patch according to its performance in Balance review mod.
The problem with Assault grens is that they are fragile in mid-late game, they are build to do dmg close-in but are not versatile like ST or cheap like Ostruppen.
So buff their vet to give them more evade (less received accuracy) and health would be good
14 Jun 2016, 05:10 AM
#26
Posts: 148
1 : build HMG42
2 : skip first buidling
3 : spam cheap 240MP callin assault gren backup with hmg42
4 : build 2nd building and rush 222
5 : GG
2 : skip first buidling
3 : spam cheap 240MP callin assault gren backup with hmg42
4 : build 2nd building and rush 222
5 : GG
14 Jun 2016, 05:22 AM
#27
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
3 : spam cheap 240MP callin assault gren backup with hmg42
They're 280.
14 Jun 2016, 06:06 AM
#28
Posts: 148
14 Jun 2016, 21:09 PM
#29
Posts: 2742
Neither do Obers or Stormtroops but they still do good in their AT role. Penals will be really strong in next patch according to its performance in Balance review mod.
The problem with Assault grens is that they are fragile in mid-late game, they are build to do dmg close-in but are not versatile like ST or cheap like Ostruppen.
So buff their vet to give them more evade (less received accuracy) and health would be good
Stormtroops get panzerschrecks. You may have something there with Obers, but Obers are on a different faction that has it's own issues with handheld AT. Obers for the most part supplement a volkschreck army. An OKW without Obers is in a better spot than one without Volks. Obers aren't assault troops either. It will be interesting to see how much of the Balance preview ends up being implemented.
If anything though, Assault Grenadiers have the normal target size value of '1' compared to Grens' '0.91'. That alone is enough to limit their capabilities.
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Classic resource points!
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Classic resource points!
14 Jun 2016, 21:20 PM
#30
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
If anything though, Assault Grenadiers have the normal target size value of '1' compared to Grens' '0.91'. That alone is enough to limit their capabilities.
The AG leader still has 1.5 armour though, probably balances out
Probably not, having multiple models survive longer definitely beats one outlasting the others.
14 Jun 2016, 21:23 PM
#31
Posts: 149 | Subs: 1
make Assgren like shock troops, 2CP 320mp
14 Jun 2016, 21:33 PM
#32
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
make Assgren like shock troops, 2CP 320mp
I feel like that would be to their detriment. Hector was saying he wouldn't think it fair for AGs to compete against upgraded units with just vet, right? With your proposal, the AGs would be cheaper units that arrive at the same time as Shocks who should logically still beat AGs pretty bad because the Shocks are more expensive and the later CP arrival would give them less time to vet and make their mark on the game before Paras, Rangers, upgraded infantry being everywhere hits the field.
14 Jun 2016, 21:36 PM
#33
Posts: 526
I don't think they need AT. I mean it would be nice, but it would make them too generalist. I like that they are close quarters only. But they do need heavy vet buffs.
14 Jun 2016, 22:34 PM
#34
Posts: 446 | Subs: 2
Vet buffs are the only reasonable step forward IMO.
But I really like the flavor of the 1.5 pgren leader.
They should do more stuff like that to more squads IMO.
But I really like the flavor of the 1.5 pgren leader.
They should do more stuff like that to more squads IMO.
Dear Lord, teach me to be generous; to give and not count the cost; to fight and not heed the wounds; to work and ask for no reward, save that of knowing I am doing Your will.
Argumentation, disagreement, and debate are critical for success.
The most important type of diversity is viewpoint diversity.
Argumentation, disagreement, and debate are critical for success.
The most important type of diversity is viewpoint diversity.
14 Jun 2016, 23:40 PM
#35
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Vet buffs are the only reasonable step forward IMO.
But I really like the flavor of the 1.5 pgren leader.
They should do more stuff like that to more squads IMO.
It is pretty much definitely an oversight from when Wehrmacht infantry (and technically weren't labeled as Wehrmacht at that point either) had armour to compensate for their smaller squad sizes, which was later retooled by changing everyone's DPS and then giving received accuracy as necessary.
15 Jun 2016, 02:26 AM
#36
Posts: 210
They dont need a buff. Maybe just a few tweaks of there vent bonus's so they scale better.
15 Jun 2016, 02:39 AM
#37
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
They dont need a buff. Maybe just a few tweaks of there vent bonus's so they scale better.
I assume you, that indeed is a buff.
15 Jun 2016, 04:01 AM
#38
7 Posts: 1664
What if they could plant demo charges at vet two or three? 
15 Jun 2016, 06:05 AM
#39
Posts: 362
How about this?
Model 24 Grenade Assault munitions cost from 45 to 30
Squad population from 5 to 7
Squad leader model replaced with regular Assault Grenadier model for consistency (so less armour)
Assault Grenadier received accuracy from 1 to .91 (same as Grenadiers)
Vet 3 replaces the sprint ability with a free-to-use toggle-sprint option
Model 24 Grenade Assault munitions cost from 45 to 30
Squad population from 5 to 7
Squad leader model replaced with regular Assault Grenadier model for consistency (so less armour)
Assault Grenadier received accuracy from 1 to .91 (same as Grenadiers)
Vet 3 replaces the sprint ability with a free-to-use toggle-sprint option
15 Jun 2016, 06:16 AM
#40
Posts: 246
Even with these tweaks, their inability to threaten vehicles makes them pretty useless, especially considering their cost. Keep everything the same and give them panzerfausts instead. Then they can be a more viable alternative to grens or osttruppen.
its like "give AT nades to shock troopers"
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