Calliope OP?

You don't happen to be one of the axis players I 2v2'd against with my friend on Trois Ponts? We were using 2 Calliopes and 2 Land mattressess after securing the perimeter around the inner island.

One of them was crying at us for "spamming op things" and for maphack, after I scouted the OKW's retreat point and barraged it after a retreat.

The calliope is fine.

Tho, if I was to change something, I would change it to where any incoming damage, such as a tank round or 2 shreck shots would cause a damaged gun and not allow it to shoot

The reason I feel my playercard is not relevant is that it derails the discussion about a unit into a discussion about whether my e-penis/rank is big enough to be "allowed" to discuss a certain unit.

I DID choose to attack Katitofs playercard because this playercard shows the guy is basically a nutter: he spends more time on forums theorycrafting than actually playing the game he is talking about, meaning his opinion is absolutely moot in the discussion.

On a sidenote I have to say the level of debate I see on this board is heavily disappointing to me, to childish levels actually. I thought we all wanted balance in the game we love here, but it seems there are so many people that are mostly just involved with their e-penis and prefer to keep their favorite army as strong as possible, balance be damned.

Back to the Calliope now:

In my opinion losing 2 squads right off the bat to a barrage is not balance: it's frustrating, cheap and it feels like you're being robbed. Army preservation is what separates the good players from the best, and killing squads is something that you have to work for in this game. Except for with this unit, where you just click on barrage and voila: bobs your uncle. The Calliope simply wipes squads way too easily.

It's cheap and needs to be fixed.

Does that mean that the walking stuka also needs to be balanced? In my last 2v2 of last night, the first walking stuka barrage killed two vetted rifle squads of my teammate, while the squads were retreating. The laser-like precision of the walking stuka is a joke, isn't balanced, and completely unrealistic.

But even the Puma doesn't cover every single disadvantage of Ostheer early-game.



My point is that the choice is completely bipolar:
1) If you don't pick the doctrine, your indirect fire options are shit (i.e., on par with UKF).
2) If you pick the doctrine, you are the god of indirect fire.

Now there are two cases:
- The faction has been designed to perform well without indirect fire. This means that they should become insanely strong when they ALSO get access to Calliope (and LMGs, and tier-free AAHT). Calliope is P2W.
- The faction was shit to begin with, and absolutely needs the Calliope to perform in the late game. In this case, the Calliope doctrine is a pay-not-to-lose doctrine.

Regardless of what situation the USF was in pre-Calliope, wouldn't it be better for the game if Calliope was weaker and (if necessary) USF core became stronger/more versatile?

The pak howie is fine. The mortar in the balance preview is also okay, as is the Priest. The Calliope has to be used aggressively to be effective and ends up being another unit that needs micro in a faction that already needs a lot of micro.

The USF core is also okay, other than the 57mm AT gun should provide green cover for its crew, the reinforce cost for RE's being too high, and mines being doctrinal. The price nerf for RE's should have included mine-laying ability, especially since all factions will soon be able to make green cover.

LOL. i'm willing to risk my rank for a go at that silliness. what if i give the crewmen zooks? no more p4 problem lol.

Go for it. Most of the time, you're going to want to decrew the Priests anyway. I do when I'm not struggling for micro. A few mines from rifle squads will help also.

Does that mean that the walking stuka also needs to be balanced? In my last 2v2 of last night, the first walking stuka barrage killed two vetted rifle squads of my teammate, while the squads were retreating. The laser-like precision of the walking stuka is a joke, isn't balanced, and completely unrealistic.

The walking stuka barrage takes quite a lot longer to land after its fired imo, also it's more vulnerable as mentioned earlier so it is more of a glass cannon, but i agree to some extent: units like that have to much impact on the game as a whole. Most of the time my stukas have crazy amount of kills, way higher than other units. It could (and possibly should) be toned down a bit imo.

lol is this your playercard:

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198009261973

Haha you hardly play games man. And if you do you play allies without ever playing axis. Gj lol.

Also: lmao at me having to know the stats of the unit I speak of. I speak of EXPERIENCE my friend, u know: PLAYING THE GAME. O no, wait, u dont know cause u hardly play it


Wow a whole 18 games played in 2v2. If this is "maining" for you, I wonder what casual means? One game a year? 9000+ forums posts, and 18 games played, pathetic.

The quote you have as a sig also shows youre nothing more than an allied fanboy that has no interest in actual balance, which makes sense since you dont play axis at all. Get out of my face son.

On a sidenote I have to say the level of debate I see on this board is heavily disappointing to me, to childish levels actually. I thought we all wanted balance in the game we love here, but it seems there are so many people that are mostly just involved with their e-penis and prefer to keep their favorite army as strong as possible, balance be damned.

Is it just me or does this seem a little contradicting?
Knowing the unit stats are important when talking balance. Your gut feeling less so.

Is it just me or does this seem a little contradicting?
Knowing the unit stats are important when talking balance. Your gut feeling less so.

It's just you.

Done some cleaning around here. Invis'd some posts.

It's fine. You are late for party.

Tho I wouldnt mind if it had 480HP.

It's just you.

I can see how you are dragging the conversation up to a level we haven't seen before. Well done.

Please don't make balance threads anymore because you loose to something. Noob.

I can see how you are dragging the conversation up to a level we haven't seen before. Well done.

Please don't make balance threads anymore because you loose to something. Noob.

I'm sorry but I simply don't feel like explaining why it's better to form an opinion by actually playing a game vs theorycrafting based on pure stats without playing. If you really don't understand that you are either not very bright or trolling, hence not giving u a serious answer.

The word you were looking for here was "lose" by the way, "loose" means something entirely different.

Done some cleaning around here. Invis'd some posts.

Kind of silly you invised my post about Katitofs playercard. I think its information people need to take into account so they can properly value his opinion (aka not). Granted, I did let that annoying troll get under my skin though.

It's fine. You are late for party.

Tho I wouldnt mind if it had 480HP.

Better late than never. Mobile arty should be glass cannons always in my opinion.

Better late than never. Mobile arty should be glass cannons always in my opinion.

Then lower price to 90/100 fuel

I once made a thread similar to this one before calli got nerfed.

These were the problems I had with it.
1. Number of rocket fired in the first salvo and time between when it was fired and when they landed was too fast.lead to quick wipes with little time to respond.

2. Sound of the rockets firing was too quiet. Often couldn't hear it firing from the fog of war.

3. High HP and armor makes it super hard to kill for a unit that never even sees the front lines.

When the enemy has indirect fire you have two options. Hold out and try to dodge the salvos which is hard to do due to 1 and 2, or try to kill it before taking too many casualties which is also hard due to 3.

It is expensive and it does leave the USFs with fewer AT units on the field. This weakness however is less prevalent in team games since they can help with the AT side of things and zooks can help prevent any stug or p4 rushes.

If I were to suggest changes it would be to fix problems 1 and 2 by making it louder and have less rockets in the first salvo to allow the enemy to relocate.

I once made a thread similar to this one before calli got nerfed.

These were the problems I had with it.
1. Number of rocket fired in the first salvo and time between when it was fired and when they landed was too fast.lead to quick wipes with little time to respond.

2. Sound of the rockets firing was too quiet. Often couldn't hear it firing from the fog of war.

3. High HP and armor makes it super hard to kill for a unit that never even sees the front lines.

When the enemy has indirect fire you have two options. Hold out and try to dodge the salvos which is hard to do due to 1 and 2, or try to kill it before taking too many casualties which is also hard due to 3.

It is expensive and it does leave the USFs with fewer AT units on the field. This weakness however is less prevalent in team games since they can help with the AT side of things and zooks can help prevent any stug or p4 rushes.

If I were to suggest changes it would be to fix problems 1 and 2 by making it louder and have less rockets in the first salvo to allow the enemy to relocate.

It really doesn't need another nerf to performance. The time between when it fires and when it hits seems about the same as the Panzerwerfer, unless the Calliope is much closer. You probably do have a point about the sound not being as noticeable as the Panzerwerfer.

I once made a thread similar to this one before calli got nerfed.

These were the problems I had with it.
1. Number of rocket fired in the first salvo and time between when it was fired and when they landed was too fast.lead to quick wipes with little time to respond.

2. Sound of the rockets firing was too quiet. Often couldn't hear it firing from the fog of war.

3. High HP and armor makes it super hard to kill for a unit that never even sees the front lines.

When the enemy has indirect fire you have two options. Hold out and try to dodge the salvos which is hard to do due to 1 and 2, or try to kill it before taking too many casualties which is also hard due to 3.

It is expensive and it does leave the USFs with fewer AT units on the field. This weakness however is less prevalent in team games since they can help with the AT side of things and zooks can help prevent any stug or p4 rushes.

If I were to suggest changes it would be to fix problems 1 and 2 by making it louder and have less rockets in the first salvo to allow the enemy to relocate.

The sound being too quiet is an excellent example of why the best way to judge whether a unit is OP or not is by actually playing the game (vs just looking at stats). That sort of stuff will never be apparent if youre just stat-theorycrafting. I fully agree with it by the way, it IS very quiet, and miss it once and you're absolute toast.

Back to the Calliope now:

In my opinion losing 2 squads right off the bat to a barrage is not balance: it's frustrating, cheap and it feels like you're being robbed. Army preservation is what separates the good players from the best, and killing squads is something that you have to work for in this game. Except for with this unit, where you just click on barrage and voila: bobs your uncle. The Calliope simply wipes squads way too easily.

It's cheap and needs to be fixed.

Well, what can i say. You need a counter vs Blobber ( OKW, Brits, USA, Soviets)

Yes calliope does his job. But they nerfed it allready and in my eyes its ok. I know Calliope is very strong,

Maybe play some allies games and get "frustrate" from OKW Stuka or smart Panzerwerfer.

So often OKW Stuka wipes units as well AND TANKS!

I know landmartze is doing the same job. Btw just saying OKW Stuka has more range then Landmatraze. And comes faster if you rush for it!

So all indrect fire works very well. But sometimes some barrage don't hit 1 unit or the units survive with 1 person left.

When you want to spam arty Show Spoiler