Ostheer pop cap limit

Hi guys

Do you think ostheer has a disadvantage with its current pop cap limit compared to allies ?

In late game I often struggle because I can't get any more units while allied forces have more troops and tank on the ground

100 = 100

I don't see a problem here.

Have you considered that panther spam might not be the answer for every question?

Because I'm quite positive this is 4v4 question right there.

Perphaps I wasn't clear enought.

Are each of ostheer unit pop cap value the same as their allied conterparts ?

Have you considered that panther spam might not be the answer for every question?

Because I'm quite positive this is 4v4 question right there.

Is that quote in your signature for real?

germs have advantage in terms of popcap

Perphaps I wasn't clear enought.

Are each of ostheer unit pop cap value the same as their allied conterparts ?

The question that you asked wasn't a good one. I haven't seen any complaints about specific Ost units having too high of a pop cap. Making a post that you're worried about max pop gives people the impression that you're playing 4v4's and relying on teammates. Also, 100 pop of Ost should be a formidable army so you probably have some other problem, in which case a replay would help.

Could be due the high popcap of Pios, and the need to have multiple of them if you have any armor on the field

Have you considered that panther spam might not be the answer for every question?

Because I'm quite positive this is 4v4 question right there.

Ironically, panther spam IS answer to any question simply due to fact that panther is easily most cost-efficient tank in the game. Only question is how to get into position where ostheer would have 4-5 vet 2-3 panthers with rest of pocap spent on sweeper pios running around.

On side note, lol stug spam with command p4, ostheer pocpap is not cost-efficient, cool story.

Is that quote in your signature for real?

Yep.

ost pop-cap is fine, unless you're talking about silly things like 3v3 or 4v4, in which case nothing is 'fine' (because that whole mode is bad).

Ironically, panther spam IS answer to any question simply due to fact that panther is easily most cost-efficient tank in the game. Only question is how to get into position where ostheer would have 4-5 vet 2-3 panthers with rest of pocap spent on sweeper pios running around.

On side note, lol stug spam with command p4, ostheer pocpap is not cost-efficient, cool story.

What. So in 2v2 you're going to spend 64-80 pop, 1960-2450mp and 700-875f on 4-5 tanks that can't really do much against infantry?

1. In 2v2, how do you get into a position where you only need 20-36 pop for Grens, MGs, mortars, etc. If you have even one pio squad (which you suggest) that leaves you with 15-31 pop to spend on others things... like 2 gren squads. Not sure how that combo isn't going to get rolled by zook squads, at nades, mines, properly supported AT guns, any of the off-map AT abilities...

2. How on earth do you get to a point where you can spend THAT many resources on dedicated AT without getting pushed off the map?

Seriously, I really want to know: I don't see how this doesn't get countered by literally anything.

From my experience (~190-300 ost) stug spam is pretty much THE solution against tanks - building 4 of THOSE will counter pretty much all armor, and for a lot lower cost in both resources and pop-cap, while having higher DPS vs. armor.

What. So in 2v2 you're going to spend 64-80 pop, 1960-2450mp and 700-875f on 4-5 tanks that can't really do much against infantry?

Totally. And after that i am going to a-click into enemy base, minimize game and wait for ez win. Coz nothing can stop that. As I already wrote Show Spoiler

Also, panthers pretty good ar killing infantry with their double hmgs, more than good when you have more than one of them.

ost pop-cap is fine, unless you're talking about silly things like 3v3 or 4v4, in which case nothing is 'fine' (because that whole mode is bad).

Also pls dont write stuff you don't know about pointlessly insulting people in the process. 2v2 have very little difference from 4v4 in terms of most efficient builds.

Totally. And after that i am going to a-click into enemy base, minimize game and wait for ez win. Coz nothing can stop that. As I already wrote.

Also, panthers pretty good ar killing infantry with their double hmgs, more than good when you have more than one of them.

Seems like good mine placement and proper use of AT guns would easily stop that, as would zook'd rifles. The double HMGs are good, but I don't think they're THAT great at taking out vetted infantry.

Also pls dont write stuff you don't know about pointlessly insulting people in the process. 2v2 have very little difference from 4v4 in terms of most efficient builds.

Wasn't intending to insult - was seriously asking, since I really doubt panthers are that amazing. Also there's a lot of difference between 2v2 and 4v4; namely resource income. A build that works well in 4v4 probably won't work well in 2v2 since your fuel income will be much, much lower, but your MP income will be very similar. As such, 2v2 (usually) ends up being much more infantry focused than 4v4's vehicle blobs.

Ironically, panther spam IS answer to any question simply due to fact that panther is easily most cost-efficient tank in the game. Only question is how to get into position where ostheer would have 4-5 vet 2-3 panthers with rest of pocap spent on sweeper pios running around.

On side note, lol stug spam with command p4, ostheer pocpap is not cost-efficient, cool story.

You seemed to forgot about comets.

If you feel you are running out of popcap:
- start building some bunkers instead. They cost literally 0 popcap.
- Consider building ammo caches. Ostheer has the best offmap abilities in the game, by far, for the modes where popcap matters. Offmaps cost no popcap.

@OP You need to define who you are comparing Ostheer to, and what units you think Ostheer is at a disadvantage in (Except for Pioneers)?

Since, you aren't defining it, I'm going to go for a case-by-case analysis.

If I wanted to rate factions with respect to popcap from strongest to weakest, I would say it's:
- USF (with vehicle decrew)
- OKW
- OST
- Soviets
- UKF
- USF (without vehicle decrew)

USF
USF practically has no popcap limit. There is no use trying to compare to them. If USF couldn't decrew their vehicles, OST would have an advantage over them (read on)

Soviets
Yes, Conscripts and Combat Engineers cost a bit less popcap-per squad than Grenadiers and the like. However, for everything else, Ostheer beats Soviets in terms of popcap head on:

Fire Support:
- Soviet 6-man crews actually take on additional popcap.
- At the same time, OST has equal-or-far-better weapon teams to Soviets
- Katyusha costs exactly the same popcap as the Panzerwerfer, yet is notably inferior
- (and also better tools to punish pak-walling)

Tanks:
- Stug: 8 popcap
- Panzer4: 12 popcap
- T34: 10 popcap

Thus, Soviets can't be better than Ostheer in terms of popcap. Instead, it seems a lot like the opposite.

UKF

Infantry:
- Grenadiers and Tommies cost about the same popcap (Grens; 7, Tommies: 8)
- At the same time, Grenadiers are far more versatile than the Tommies. This allows you to save popcap from elsewhere

Utility:
- Healing costs popcap to deploy for the UKF.

Engineers:
- Sappers repair way faster than Pioneers. Their higher popcap cost (8 vs 6) really pays off.
- This is the only advantage UKF has over ostheer

Tanks:
- Panzer is superior to Cromwell, yet costs exactly the same popcap (Valentine also has 12 popcap)
- Panther: 16 popcap ... Comet/Churchill: 18 popcap
- 222: 5 popcap, Stug: 8 popcap ... AEC: 8 popcap

OKW

They do everything that Ostheer can do, but better (except for the Sniper and the Stug).

- PanzerIV/Panther cost exactly the same popcap as Ostheer versions, but are notably better.
- Schewer costs no popcap to deploy, yet requires a significant investment from the enemy to tear down.
- MG34 has the least popcap in the game, also despite being far superior to 50cal/Vickers, when vetted.

There is no need to delve into further details, because they should be obvious to everyone (Volks, Panzerfussiliers)

Pios need their pop cap decreased. That should solve the problem. I feel Ostheer struggles with pop cap against USF the most cuz a single double upgraded rifle squad will beat single upgraded grens and pgrens. Yet pgrens are 9 pop cap. This is what happens when I play against USF. I get 2 mgs, 2 grens, and 2-3 pgrens, a pak maybe a mortar. Then I want a few tanks, but I can't get a decent number cuz of pop cap. And I have a clear fuel adv but I can't capitalize on it ;( cuz of the pop cap. I repeat double upgraded rifles with defeat all Ostheer inf one on one ( assuming veterancy is the same).