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russian armor

WEHR Flame - Halftrack still not balanced after 3 years

5 Jun 2016, 11:40 AM
#41
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Do you know what even more hilarious? WASP upgrade has same cost as HT flamer. There goes your 90 ammo for 1 flamer only.

Relic balance.
is wasp tier 2 and cost fuel to build ? how much armor it has ?
5 Jun 2016, 11:52 AM
#42
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

As Firesparks pointed out, comparing the FlameHT to something useless (WASP) proves nothing, hence it's a fallacy. Both units, realistically, have only one useful function (clearing garrisons with MGs), for which:
- Ostheer gets better tools, which are more versatile, for cheaper (why pay more for something less?)
- WASP is already terrible to begin with. Vet1 MG42s hardcounter WASP in the blink of an eye.
5 Jun 2016, 12:37 PM
#43
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29

Cookiez is on point here with his comments.

It would be cool if there was differing veterancy pathways depending on the if you upgraded it or not. Probably too much work for Relic at this point though.
5 Jun 2016, 14:22 PM
#44
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378

is wasp tier 2 and cost fuel to build ? how much armor it has ?


For your argument:

If you say claim that higher tier deserve better treatment, then Soviet M5 Halftrack needs only 60 ammo to upgrade Quad because its in tier3.

Otherwise, if you say that cost should reflect effectiveness regardless of tier, then Brit WASP cost should only half of Flame HT.

Either ways, if you are not axis fanboy who tries to defend with garbage statements like "Never seen it's used or use it so it should be buff" then you have no choice but to accept that the fact Flame HT ammo cost reduction is unjustified.
6 Jun 2016, 05:25 AM
#45
avatar of easierwithaturret

Posts: 247

The balance preview fixes the flame HT. Cheaper upgrade, less instagibbing garrisons and faster aim time. Good changes.


Mostly agreed. In its current state the unit is a one-hit-wonder that's good for a cheesy surprise wipe but like any fragile close range unit is impossible to keep alive (useless vet bonuses don't help). The unit certainly doesn't need any more offensive ability, it needs either some better survivability or reduced munitions cost.
6 Jun 2016, 08:09 AM
#46
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



For your argument:

If you say claim that higher tier deserve better treatment, then Soviet M5 Halftrack needs only 60 ammo to upgrade Quad because its in tier3.

Otherwise, if you say that cost should reflect effectiveness regardless of tier, then Brit WASP cost should only half of Flame HT.

Either ways, if you are not axis fanboy who tries to defend with garbage statements like "Never seen it's used or use it so it should be buff" then you have no choice but to accept that the fact Flame HT ammo cost reduction is unjustified.
it would cost 60 if it didn't suppress (it's a 360 suppression platform dat has no place time)
6 Jun 2016, 09:13 AM
#47
avatar of l4hti

Posts: 476

I think it is fine.

Its such a glass cannon

2 shots from ZIS
T70
3 AT nades
AA HT (Both, russian and american)
British Armored Car
Mines
6 Jun 2016, 11:47 AM
#48
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378

it would cost 60 if it didn't suppress (it's a 360 suppression platform dat has no place time)


And Flame HT can leave fire dots, which deny cover and burn house to death. Best house denying tool I've ever used.

Remove that features and there will be no complain of 90 ammo.
6 Jun 2016, 14:16 PM
#49
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072



And Flame HT can leave fire dots, which deny cover and burn house to death. Best house denying tool I've ever used.

Remove that features and there will be no complain of 90 ammo.


M5 can suppress and is immune to small arms fire.

Flame HT can "leave fire dots" but loses to literally every single allied light vehicle or AT infantry unit in the game.

Same fuel cost too. Don't see why you have such a huge beef with flame HT. Did I mention they're nerfing its dmg to garrisons?
6 Jun 2016, 15:26 PM
#50
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378



M5 can suppress and is immune to small arms fire.

Flame HT can "leave fire dots" but loses to literally every single allied light vehicle or AT infantry unit in the game.

Same fuel cost too. Don't see why you have such a huge beef with flame HT. Did I mention they're nerfing its dmg to garrisons?


Okay, I will counter your argument with the same one:

Flame HT has two flamethrower and almost immume to small arm fire.

WASP has one flamethrower, but loses to every axis vehicle, AT infantry or snare infantry in the game.

WASP has higher mp cost over Flame HT. Don't see why you keep defending flame HT. Did I mention they're nerfing its cost further?




One more thing, I don't say that Flame HT upgrade cost reduction is not fine. What I want to say is FAIR and square. If flame HT get reduction in cost, its counterpart should get the same treatment, otherwise, leave it be.

In other word, I would suggest either one of these two:
- Restore back 120 ammo for HT flamethrowers.
- Reduce WASP flamethrower to 60 ammo(and vicker), as well as reduce M5 HT Quad cost to 90 ammo.


And I know the effectiveness of flame thrower HT. This buff may be necessary for some people, but there is limit of terrible balance judgement.
6 Jun 2016, 15:35 PM
#51
avatar of conte1917

Posts: 2

anti Inf and Anti inf inside building is Only Thing that Flammen can do

and it is 2 tier but Soviet Scout car+flamer and Wasp is 1 tier
problem?
6 Jun 2016, 23:38 PM
#53
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072



Okay, I will counter your argument with the same one:





One more thing, I don't say that Flame HT upgrade cost reduction is not fine. What I want to say is FAIR and square. If flame HT get reduction in cost, its counterpart should get the same treatment, otherwise, leave it be.

In other word, I would suggest either one of these two:
- Restore back 120 ammo for HT flamethrowers.
- Reduce WASP flamethrower to 60 ammo(and vicker), as well as reduce M5 HT Quad cost to 90 ammo.


And I know the effectiveness of flame thrower HT. This buff may be necessary for some people, but there is limit of terrible balance judgement.


Timing makes a big difference as well. UC hits the field right off the bat and becomes a wasp 2 minutes later. It also gets a huge durability buff with the upgrade in case you forgot. Also can repair itself. Wasp is in a good spot in the patch as is the flame HT
7 Jun 2016, 00:39 AM
#54
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

lock this thread.

reopen it when OP is top 50 with his flamer HT abuse
7 Jun 2016, 12:36 PM
#55
avatar of RiCE

Posts: 284



Well, you choose.

Either scaling, but unable to get vet reinforce platform, or non scaling damage monster.

Same deal with soviet M5.


Right... Hey, i give you a pair of shoes if you cut off both of your legs. Its your choice.
You will never reach vet2 without the flamethrowers..
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