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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » WEHR Flame - Halftrack still not balanced after 3 years

WEHR Flame - Halftrack still not balanced after 3 years

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The amazing Chandler
3 Jun 2016, 13:22 PM
#1
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

Its been almost 3 years since release and Relic still cant balance that thing.
First it was OP because of its veterancy (to much HP after veting up), then it got nerfed to extinction and now?
Two bursts against a unit in a building aaaaaaaand wipe. Relic buffed the flames (for every one, ok) but reduced the cost of the upgrade for the Halftrack. It gets two Flame-throwers, the second one for the half price and its range is insane.

I think the problem is manly against buildings but also against support weapons outside of them and i believe that it is a little OP at the moment. Its the best Flame weapon in the game and you can have it so early!

Just look at this if you are not convinced :D. At 08:30 and at 16:45. Look at the damage and the range.



What do you think?
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WhySooSerious
3 Jun 2016, 13:30 PM
#2
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Posts: 1248

wtf this guy didnt even try to get his MGs out. The unit preservation skills DansGame Usually you would see the MG unloading while getting shot at. (Preparing to leave) But even when his mortar pit is about to get attacked he didnt notice?

In my personal opinion you have a 5-7 second window to exit the building. Should've noticed and evacuated. I mean this is a game where quick reactions are important are they not?
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The amazing Chandler
3 Jun 2016, 13:49 PM
#3
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jun 2016, 13:30 PMWhySooSerious
wtf this guy didnt even try to get his MGs out. The unit preservation skills DansGame Usually you would see the MG unloading while getting shot at. (Preparing to leave) But even when his mortar pit is about to get attacked he didnt notice?

In my personal opinion you have a 5-7 second window to exit the building. Should've noticed and evacuated. I mean this is a game where quick reactions are important are they not?


Thats not even a valid point and i will explain.
How long is the pack up time?
I know the maxims is 2.5 sec so you only have 4.5 sec time to react.
For the vickers and 50cal its 3 or 4 i believe? so even less time to react.
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EtherealDragon
3 Jun 2016, 13:50 PM
#4
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Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

I'm inclined to agree with OP while I think the unit itself is overall pretty balanced but when it comes to Garrisons its a little too good (especially when you take into account it may be getting a price reduction next patch).

Due to the pack-up time of HMGs you more or less you have to evac ASAP or its a guaranteed wipe - if the squad is at less that 100% health just forget about it. It almost feels like the old OP Wasp that would just insta-delete HMGs.

If you watch the Replay first burst is at 8:45 and its wiped at 8:52... for a squad at maybe 80% health that's pretty insane.
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WhySooSerious
3 Jun 2016, 13:51 PM
#5
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Posts: 1248

I usually quickly notice and evacuate with half the unit's health :\ Sometimes they would get wiped but when I watch I was 2 seconds too late :P So I am kind of used to it.
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boc120
3 Jun 2016, 13:51 PM
#6
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Posts: 245

Damage against units in buildings could maybe be reduced a *little*. But the halftrack is so flimsy now, that for that investment, it needs to be good at its job.
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Katitof
3 Jun 2016, 13:52 PM
#7
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Its getting changes on preview, will shoot faster, but won't deal as much dmg to garrisons, overall its a buff though.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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some one
3 Jun 2016, 14:01 PM
#8
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Posts: 935

Poor Brit couldn't use garrison for full opness.
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kitekaze
3 Jun 2016, 14:04 PM
#9
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378

Do you know what even more hilarious? WASP upgrade has same cost as HT flamer. There goes your 90 ammo for 1 flamer only.

Relic balance.
Tired of Ostheer? Try Kampfgruppen Lehr mod.

Revival of Panzer Elite in Company of Heroes 2.
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The amazing Chandler
3 Jun 2016, 14:29 PM
#10
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jun 2016, 14:04 PMkitekaze
Do you know what even more hilarious? WASP upgrade has same cost as HT flamer. There goes your 90 ammo for 1 flamer only.

Relic balance.


:clap:
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Crystal
3 Jun 2016, 14:31 PM
#11
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Posts: 97

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jun 2016, 14:04 PMkitekaze
Do you know what even more hilarious? WASP upgrade has same cost as HT flamer. There goes your 90 ammo for 1 flamer only.

Relic balance.


You forgot to mention that the basic price of the UC is a little cheaper than the price of the HT.

And you don't need a T2 to build the UC. Think about it.
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Zyllen
3 Jun 2016, 14:33 PM
#12
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jun 2016, 14:04 PMkitekaze
Do you know what even more hilarious? WASP upgrade has same cost as HT flamer. There goes your 90 ammo for 1 flamer only.

Relic balance.


And it is balanced. its called asymmetrical balance where some units are simply outperforming another faction units

or have you not seen the difference between the okw track and the usf track?
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PanzerGeneralForever
3 Jun 2016, 14:37 PM
#13
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Posts: 1072

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jun 2016, 14:04 PMkitekaze
Do you know what even more hilarious? WASP upgrade has same cost as HT flamer. There goes your 90 ammo for 1 flamer only.

Relic balance.


With the balance preview, the wasp upgrade gives it a flamethrower in addition to health buff and other buffs too making it more beefy. UC itself is also a lot cheaper fuel wise, and comes out even faster.

The balance preview also nerf the flamer HTs dmg against Garrison's but buffed its overall performance. Flamer HT + 222 can sort of be seen as Ostheers "light vehicle" but split between two vehicles. AT (222) and AI (flamer HT).
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198060148756
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Butcher
3 Jun 2016, 15:12 PM
#14
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

The only thing I don´t get with the 251 is the vet bonus:

SdKfz 251 Half-track
Vet1: Unlocks the 'Infantry Awareness' ability
Vet2: +20% reinforce radius, +20% speed, +20% rotation speed, +20% ac/de-celeration
Vet3: +20% reinforce radius, -20% weapon cooldown, +30% sight radius

https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1227

On vet 2 and 3 it gets a higher reinforce radius. Reinforcing from an upgraded halftrack has been removed previously. How often do you get a vet 2 or 3 not upgraded halftrack so you can profit from that part of the vet bonus? :snfPeter:
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CookiezNcreem
3 Jun 2016, 15:23 PM
#15
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Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

deleting things from garrisons is one of the few things this thing is good at.

In a world full of AECs, Oorah at nades, bofors and pits with brace that make its flames look like water guns, and Stuart's/captain.... The flame HT is An endangered species as it is.... Can't believe someone could complain about it actually.

Has more predators and deterrents to worry about than any other light vehicle... OP pls..
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Mittens
3 Jun 2016, 15:26 PM
#16
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Donator 11

Posts: 1276

Its getting fixed in the balance preview. The issue was they didn't half the damage on the flamethrowers so effectively the thing is 2 flamethrowers in one. Then on top of that they didn't adjust its damage v garrison to compensate for the double flamethrowers.
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kingdun3284
3 Jun 2016, 16:22 PM
#17
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Posts: 392

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jun 2016, 15:23 PMCookiezNcreem
deleting things from garrisons is one of the few things this thing is good at.

In a world full of AECs, Oorah at nades, bofors and pits with brace that make its flames look like water guns, and Stuart's/captain.... The flame HT is An endangered species as it is.... Can't believe someone could complain about it actually.

Has more predators and deterrents to worry about than any other light vehicle... OP pls..


In the world full of free beginning faust, T0 AT, early volk shrecks, every ally light vehicle look like garbage and ally light vehicle is even weaker than the axis varient at the same time. So gardening balance.

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kingdun3284
3 Jun 2016, 16:23 PM
#18
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jun 2016, 14:04 PMkitekaze
Do you know what even more hilarious? WASP upgrade has same cost as HT flamer. There goes your 90 ammo for 1 flamer only.

Relic balance.


It's Relic axismetric balance
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kingdun3284
3 Jun 2016, 16:23 PM
#19
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jun 2016, 14:04 PMkitekaze
Do you know what even more hilarious? WASP upgrade has same cost as HT flamer. There goes your 90 ammo for 1 flamer only.

Relic balance.


Repeated plz delete
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Katitof
3 Jun 2016, 17:19 PM
#20
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Jun 2016, 15:12 PMButcher
The only thing I don´t get with the 251 is the vet bonus:

SdKfz 251 Half-track
Vet1: Unlocks the 'Infantry Awareness' ability
Vet2: +20% reinforce radius, +20% speed, +20% rotation speed, +20% ac/de-celeration
Vet3: +20% reinforce radius, -20% weapon cooldown, +30% sight radius

https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1227

On vet 2 and 3 it gets a higher reinforce radius. Reinforcing from an upgraded halftrack has been removed previously. How often do you get a vet 2 or 3 not upgraded halftrack so you can profit from that part of the vet bonus? :snfPeter:


Well, you choose.

Either scaling, but unable to get vet reinforce platform, or non scaling damage monster.

Same deal with soviet M5.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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