On behave of the Churchill's May Patch

Churchill is an INFANTRY SUPPORT TANK. Let me say that again. INFANTRY SUPPORT TANK. Not a heavy tank, not a jack of all trades medium tank, not a TD, an INFANTRY SUPPORT TANK. Its weaknesses are TDs.

FF is a tank destroyer. Its weaknesses are ATGs and hand-held AT or other TDs with faster ROF.

These two units cover each other's weaknesses. Use them together.

I see the Churchill + FF combo the same way I see the panther + brummbarr combo. Dedicated AT + Dedicated AI t4 vehicles.

Brits in the end have better repairing which makes the Churchill sponge strat viable.

Agree with this fact. Why not adding a green cover bonus to infantry around Churchills ?

okay 1 the Churchill has a hard time pen axis armor.
2 Its really slow.

but we will have to see cause trying to kite with it when there are shrek volks on the field was torture.

i would rather see the main guns get buffed than a price drop

Really the only good of the churchill is it being a meat shield for FFs. It does to fine against non-vetted Panzer 4s but, like others stated, it simply costs too much for too little. Even against infantry it's rather decent. However, with the cost reduction and OKW shreck to Sturmpioneers, it does perform decent overall against them. A good solution was what Mr.Smith stated before

310 armour (panther)
1280 HP (King tiger)
Lower penetration
(perhaps)reduce/remove speed penalty with smoke screen
(keep price to a similar level)

Agreed with most aside from the lower of penetration (given how low it is already) and HP could potentially be too high. Nevertheless sound suggestion.

Agree with this fact. Why not adding a green cover bonus to infantry around Churchills ?

We sort of have that already. Have the Churchill face sideways toward the enemy and you practically have a study, mobile wall of sandbags with a turret.

We sort of have that already. Have the Churchill face sideways toward the enemy and you practically have a study, mobile wall of sandbags with a turret.

Probably not what Johnny meant Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure an aura bonus from Churchills causing infantry to receive accuracy and half damage from small arms would probably be broken.

Probably not what Johnny meant Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure an aura bonus from Churchills causing infantry to receive accuracy and half damage from small arms would probably be broken.

We already have a PIV command tank and the bonus is bordeline OP. Imagine 50% damage modifier ROFL

Really the only good of the churchill is it being a meat shield for FFs. It does to fine against non-vetted Panzer 4s but, like others stated, it simply costs too much for too little. Even against infantry it's rather decent. However, with the cost reduction and OKW shreck to Sturmpioneers, it does perform decent overall against them. A good solution was what Mr.Smith stated before

310 armour (panther)
1280 HP (King tiger)
Lower penetration
(perhaps)reduce/remove speed penalty with smoke screen
(keep price to a similar level)

Agreed with most aside from the lower of penetration (given how low it is already) and HP could potentially be too high. Nevertheless sound suggestion.

300 armor 1080 hp same pen as t 34 remove sped penality to smoke and give green cover and speed buff to inf dat go inside same price as now (not in the patch)

Agree with this fact. Why not adding a green cover bonus to infantry around Churchills ?

Would be a bit too OP imo. Yellow is fine if it's a big enough aura

I can agree with this statement as an Allied player.

Having StuGs against tanks like a Churchill are effective. Even though the assault gun has less armor, its cheap enough to allow multiple tanks like 2-3 which cannot be achieved with a Panther unless that person has enough popcap or enough fuel. The StuG is cheap enough and can perform better dps than the Panther in terms of firepower. Yes, it doesn't have the armor that people want to have against a Churchill, but when it is supported by an AT gun at the rear while there is a 222 with a spotting scope you have a very dangerous tank hunter group against the Churchill.

Double stugs = double stuffed fun

The first thing I checked when I booted up CoH2 beta 3 years ago was to see if vehicles were able to provide green cover. They could and I was overjoyed at the possibilities this opened. Then I promptly forgot about it and never used the fact. Not only are the infantry "spots" bugged and unusable, but you also never want your tank to stand still in this game.

But if there is one tank where it might work it would be the Churchill.

Instead of grenades, I would like to see (vanilla) Churchill have an ability to take a "Defensive Position":
- immobile (8ish seconds cooldown before it can be cancelled )
- 1.25 armour, 0.8 received damage to the tank only
- create green cover spots (maybe massage the hitbox to be a bit larger for purpose of this green cover)
- any Brit infantry hugging this green cover (no aura, no radius, only infantry literally touching the cover) get some extra bonus, like immunity to suppression or something.

Approach enemy strongpoint, click defensive position, place infantry behind the Churchill. It would emphasize the Churchill's infantry support nature better than YOLOing a PaK wall to throw grenades at them from the hatch.

Yeah tank taking a "posture" is silly but so is magical bullet absorption aura just because there is a captain in a special Panzer IV 20 meters away, or a Jagdpanzer phase-shifting.

Double stugs = double stuffed fun

StuG Life.

Approach enemy strongpoint, click defensive position, place infantry behind the Churchill. It would emphasize the Churchill's infantry support nature better than YOLOing a PaK wall to throw grenades at them from the hatch.

That would be the ideal dream of turning Churchill into a spearhead shield. Unfortunately, the way AoE supresion is implemented, the moment the enemy MG focusses on a tank, all surounding infantry are insta-pinned

If I make 2 StuGs to handle a Churchill, I'm invested deep into T3 and setting myself to try and pull off flanks with a P4. Or More StuGs.

That said, StuGs need to get TD range, at least with vet and I would agree with the sentiment. Their range combined with the faults of aiming and pathing without a turret make it a very clumsy tool. Only under controlled circumstances can they excel at their task. At the same time a T70 can kill a StuG without taking damage given the right conditions.

Agree with this fact. Why not adding a green cover bonus to infantry around Churchills ?

Well you can do that ... but not ethical since you do need your tank to move around constantly

There is one thing that i would like to ask though since the forums here are chatting here about the possible solutions that you can bring out on. What happens on a 3v3 match or a 4v4 match that you and your axis pals are OKW and that your opposition are all British faction. And with most of them having a churchill and infantry sections moving upfront, what is your solution with this problem?

There is one thing that i would like to ask though since the forums here are chatting here about the possible solutions that you can bring out on. What happens on a 3v3 match or a 4v4 match that you and your axis pals are OKW and that your opposition are all British faction. And with most of them having a churchill and infantry sections moving upfront, what is your solution with this problem?

The usual?
1x


1x


HF bringing any number of churchills vs that. PIAT blob might stand a chance, but that leaves you shooting ducks for new stg volks.

There is one thing that i would like to ask though since the forums here are chatting here about the possible solutions that you can bring out on. What happens on a 3v3 match or a 4v4 match that you and your axis pals are OKW and that your opposition are all British faction. And with most of them having a churchill and infantry sections moving upfront, what is your solution with this problem?

Jagdpanzers/Raks + MG/Obers. Jagds aren't threatened by the Churchill and gain precious veterancy from them, especially with the Elite Armor HEAT shells. Obers or Ober + MG will easily chew through Tommies who try to attack.

CmdPanthers also work wonders thanks to Mark Target compensating for the panther's lower DPS and gets pretty funny when combined with things like the Sturmtiger rocket of Vet5 Jagdpanzers loading HEAT shells from Elite Armor.

There is one thing that i would like to ask though since the forums here are chatting here about the possible solutions that you can bring out on. What happens on a 3v3 match or a 4v4 match that you and your axis pals are OKW and that your opposition are all British faction. And with most of them having a churchill and infantry sections moving upfront, what is your solution with this problem?

specializations and communications, panzer4s/jagdpanzer -> KT from 1 + stuka + rakentens/volks support from another player. pound them with stukas and hold the line with kingtiger + medium tanks and volks all around.

a KT can hold back untold amounts of churchills so i dont know whats the problem here.

there is just no way for brits to do anything substantial with a churchill if its going to be nerfed futher, even with its current stats and lowered cost, its still just a glorified kv-1. cheap but useless.

If I make 2 StuGs to handle a Churchill, I'm invested deep into T3 and setting myself to try and pull off flanks with a P4. Or More StuGs.

That said, StuGs need to get TD range, at least with vet and I would agree with the sentiment. Their range combined with the faults of aiming and pathing without a turret make it a very clumsy tool. Only under controlled circumstances can they excel at their task. At the same time a T70 can kill a StuG without taking damage given the right conditions.

stug doesn't need TD range. their dps and pen already allow them to 1v1 most allied tank. Only the allied heavy tank is ever a challenge.

their stun round is also one of the best ability in the entire game. Having the ability to knock a is2 temporarily out of a fight is immensely powerful.

stug doesn't need TD range. their dps and pen already allow them to 1v1 most allied tank. Only the allied heavy tank is ever a challenge.

their stun round is also one of the best ability in the entire game. Having the ability to knock a is2 temporarily out of a fight is immensely powerful.

TWP for mobile TDs only locks the turret now(not sure how stacking of them works). Its still pretty meaningful as its a guaranteed pen shot on IS-2 front armor anyway.