Repair Speed Tweaks

600 mp vetted at

vet3

with 60 ammo in upgrades, id say thats quite the investment in repairs + unit preservation and should be better than 2-3 pios.

Also if you got a kt down to 5 hp and dont manage to finish it off, either bad luck or bad play.

I Dont like the idea of punishing armor play and making infantry blobs even more convenient.

Let lategame armor be lategame-powered.

You sure?

Lets see...
2SPs cost 600mp and have no problems getting to vet3, will have even less now with shrecks.

You start with one SP, so you need to pay only 300mp for 2nd one.

Now, 3 pios still repair much slower, can't vet effectively with sweepers, you need to pay 400mp to have 3 on field, can't boost repair speed by a huge amount with cheap upgrade.

So actually, ost pays more and gets less as you have more squads, less utility, more micro tax and less return from investment AND you need to keep one of these squads off the field to tech.

Same deal with CEs.

Its rather clear that WFA overperforms with repairs when we put them next to each other, UKF at least when getting heavy engies upgrade are also giving up comet and getting huge hp poll churchill which still takes a lot of time to repair and UKF repair upgrades still cost more resources.

Why should Soviet engies get faster repair like Sturms when they have flamer+demo charges?

The repair speed atm is their only flaw, they are already the cheapest engie unit and arguably the best in terms of utility

^ Nice rationalization. Those utilities are part of the faction design.


The IS2 is currently useless since it deals way less damage than it takes, thanks to the time it should remain out of the field for repairs.


@Magic: Getting your CE/Pios to vet 2 is not achieved easily.

Why should Soviet engies get faster repair like Sturms when they have flamer+demo charges?

Why should volks get StGs when OKW has KT?
Why should SPs get shrecks when OKW have buffed puppchen?

The repair speed atm is their only flaw, they are already the cheapest engie unit and arguably the best in terms of utility

Suuure they are.
No, back to official forums, to your nest.

For the longest time nobody had a problem with the repair speed. If you overly committed your armour, you knew you faced a long downtime until it was repaired.

Then WFA came out and all of the sudden people's expectations of what is a good repair speed went through the roof.

No, sorry, tanks should be vulnerable during repairs, and repairs should last longer. This would indirectly nerf heavies and buff light AT units (a good thing), and give more purpose to artillery and attentive players listening to repair sounds in the fog of war.

If you rely on armour, commit it and it gets beat up a lot, then you should be punished with downtime. Unless you invest heavily into engineers. Killing off the engineer support corps should also be a legitimate soft counter to tank heavy builds.

Ostheer players know that going for a Tiger and three Panzers will require a small army of repair engineers. Similar for Soviets. It is the OKW and Brit players that are special snowflakes.

Therefore I say, reduce default repair speed of all 3 non-vanilla factions, and nerf the two heaviest transgressors and their upgrades: OKW and Brits.

Mech truck repair guys, Sturmpios, Royal Engineers, and yes, the Anvil RE upgrade should all be hit with a nerf bat.

Are repair engineers a paid unlock in the balance patch? If so, OKW could keep that at least.

Remove US super glue if you must for the sake of fairness, although I strongly feel that the flexibility superglue affords is one of the things that compensate for US not having heavy tanks.

This would also be an indirect buff to long range arty and Soviet Industry.

Then WFA came out and all of the sudden people's expectations of what is a good repair speed went through the roof.

Actually, from what I remember, people noticed SPios repair speed quite quickly and complained that its too fast.

Back then it made sense, with the resource penalties and limited armor, you had less tanks so you needed to get them back faster to combat, but a LOT has changed since.

USF, well USF is kind of balanced in the repair speed, sure they have the crews, but they won't repair the tanks in 5 seconds, pretty much the only difference between USF and vanila is vehicle crew basic engi independency, repair speeds themselves are ok.

Brits as I've said, pay hefty upgrade costs and lock down awesome tank to repair fast.

And we have OKW, being the special snowflake as ever.

Tuning down spios rep speed is also a valid option right now, though I'd still do something to help pios and CEs get to vet2 more reliably.

repair speed is part of faction design

repair speed is part of faction design

So are tanks, infantry and off-maps.

That excuses existence of imbalanced parts how again?

OKW, brits and USF's repair speed needs to be towed down. The reason i say USF too is because most of their tanks you dont need to buy engineers at all.

@Katitof keep in mind 2 SP sqauds are 18pop cap and even though the fuel penalty is removed, all the tanks prices have gone up as a result so just like for all factions, all of them have down sides and up sides, you cant just cherry pick.

I think this is worthy to have at hand or in the first post.

Wehrmacht:

Pioneer Squad:
Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10.4


OKW

Sturmpioneer:
Vet0: 12
Vet0+Support Package: 16
Vet2: 16
Vet2+Support Package: 20

Mechanized Regiment HQ Repair team:
4 repair guys: 9


USF

Rear Echelon Squad:
Vet0: 8
Vet2: 12
Vet3: 15 (extra squad member)

Vehicle Crew
Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10

Assault Engineers:
Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10.4


SU

Engineer Squad:

Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10.4

Conscripts
Repair Kit: 6.36

Repair Station
4 repair guys: 9



UKF

Royal Engineers
Vet0 (4men): 8
Vet0 (5 men): 10
Vet2 (4 men): 12
Vet 2 (5 men): 15

Heavy Engineers:
Vet0 (4men): 16
Vet0 (5 men): 20
Vet2 (4 men): 20
Vet 2 (5 men): 25

I think this is worthy to have at hand or in the first post.

That's just horrible 10.4 is lower than the lowerst wfa vet 0 repair speed lol

Why should volks get StGs when OKW has KT?
Why should SPs get shrecks when OKW have buffed puppchen?



Suuure they are.
No, back to official forums, to your nest.

Are you talking about yourself?

Gj ruining the forums

Wehrmacht:

Pioneer Squad:
Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10.4

OKW

Sturmpioneer:
Vet0: 12
Vet0+Support Package: 16
Vet2: 16
Vet2+Support Package: 20

Mechanized Regiment HQ Repair team:
4 repair guys: 9

USF

Rear Echelon Squad:
Vet0: 8
Vet2: 12
Vet3: 15 (extra squad member)

Vehicle Crew
Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10

Assault Engineers:
Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10.4

SU

Engineer Squad:

Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10.4

Conscripts
Repair Kit: 6.36

Repair Station
4 repair guys: 9

UKF

Royal Engineers
Vet0 (4men): 8
Vet0 (5 men): 10
Vet2 (4 men): 12
Vet 2 (5 men): 15

Heavy Engineers:
Vet0 (4men): 16
Vet0 (5 men): 20
Vet2 (4 men): 20
Vet 2 (5 men): 25

Building on this:

- Make minesweepers actually take up a weapon slot

- Starting repair speed of Sturmpioneers reduced from 3 to 1.6

- Starting repair speed of Rear Echelons reduced from 2 to 1.2

- Starting repair speed of Royal Engineers reduced from 2 to 1.2

- SU and Ostheer Minesweepers now add a repair bonus of 1.15

- Rear Echelon Minesweepers now add a repair bonus of 0.8 (since you can equip a weapon with it)

- Sturmpioneer Minesweepers now add a repair bonus of 1.15, are exclusive with the Flamethrower and Panzerschreck upgrades

- Royal Engineer minesweepers now add a repair bonus of 0.8 (since you can equip a weapon with it)

- Repair speed bonus of Heavy Engineers reduced from 2 to (1 or 0, depending on Churchill/Heavy Engineer suggestion below)

Churchill/Heavy Engineer Suggestion

- Churchill health and armour (F/R) from 1400 and 240/180 to 1040 and 320/140 (more durable against infantry AT, and more rewarding to flank)

- Churchill pop cost from 18 to 16 (Just the Anvil Churchill)

- Churchill cost from 540/180 to 500/170 (Just the Anvil Churchill)

- Heavy Engineer upgrade no longer adds a Vickers K (long-ranged MG on a short-ranged squad?)

- Heavy Engineers no longer have a speed penalty in combat

- Heavy Engineer upgrade cost reduced from 70 to 50

Assuming all of this is implemented:

Wehrmacht:

Pioneer Squad:
Vet0: 6.4
Vet0 + Minesweeper: 11
Vet2: 10.4
Vet02 + Minesweeper: 15

OKW

Sturmpioneer:
Vet0: 6.4
Vet0+Support Package: 11
Vet2: 10.4
Vet2+Support Package: 15

Mechanized Regiment HQ Repair team:
4 repair guys: 9

USF

Rear Echelon Squad:
Vet0: 4.8
Vet0 + Minesweeper: 8
Vet2: 8.8
Vet2 + Minesweeper: 12
Vet3: 11 (extra squad member)
Vet3 + Minesweeper: 15

Vehicle Crew
Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10

Assault Engineers:
Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10.4

SU

Engineer Squad:

Vet0: 6.4
Vet0 + Minesweeper: 11
Vet2: 10.4
Vet02 + Minesweeper: 15

Conscripts
Repair Kit: 6.36

Repair Station
4 repair guys: 9

UKF

Royal Engineers
Vet0 (4men): 4.8
Vet0 (5 men): 6
Vet0 + Minesweeper (4men): 8
Vet0 + Minesweeper (5men): 10
Vet2 (4 men): 8.8
Vet 2 (5 men): 11
Vet2 + Minesweeper (4men): 12
Vet2 + Minesweeper (5men): 15

Heavy Engineers (without Churchill rework):
Vet0 (4men): 8.8
Vet0 (5 men): 11
Vet0 + Minesweeper (4men): 12
Vet0 + Minesweeper (5men): 15
Vet2 (4 men): 12.8
Vet 2 (5 men): 16
Vet2 + Minesweeper (4men): 16
Vet2 + Minesweeper (5men): 20

What do you think?

What do you think?

I think it's way over the top lol. The changes i mention a couple of post before, take into account cost of unit, performance and utility. For example: i do think it's fine that SP vet0 repair rate should be 1.5x the speed of Pios as they cost 1.5x mp and they have less utility (flamer, AT mine, bunker, vision).

I do think that EFA repair rate is fine and sweepers should only SLIGHTLY increase it.

Pioneer Squad:
Vet0: 6.4
Vet0 + Minesweeper: 8.4
Vet2: 10.4
Vet02 + Minesweeper: 12.4

OKW

Sturmpioneer:
Vet0: 10
Vet0+Support Package: 14
Vet2: 14
Vet2+Support Package: 18

USF

Rear Echelon Squad:
Vet0: 6.4
Vet2: 10.4
Vet3: 13

Assault Engineers:
Vet0: 8
Vet2: 12

SU

Engineer Squad:

Vet0: 6.4
Vet0 + Minesweeper: 8.4
Vet2: 10.4
Vet02 + Minesweeper: 12.4

UKF

Royal Engineers
Vet0 (4men): 7.2
Vet0 (5 men): 9
Vet2 (4 men): 11.2
Vet 2 (5 men): 13

Heavy Engineers (if Churchill remains as high HP):
Vet0 (4men): 13.2
Vet0 (5 men): 16.5
Vet2 (4 men): 17.2
Vet 2 (5 men): 20.5

Sure, repair speed is most broken thing in this game and need to be discussed first of all.

I dunno about claim that Sturmpioneers have less utility than Pioneers, especially if they get Panzershrecks next patch.

A vet2 280 manpower Sturmpio squad with a 30 ammo investment has 2.5x the repair speed of a 200mp Pioneer squad.

Yes, I stacked the numbers a bit to illustrate the bias. But imagine if there existed an OKW unit that had 2.5x the DPS of its Wehrmacht counterpart?

We do not tolerate such huge fluctuations in DPS or hit points or penetration in game in units of comparable tiering and roles. Nor should we, it would be insane. It would be like vet2 Grenadiers with a 30 ammo LMG inflicting triple the DPS of other core rifle infantry at medium range.

Then why do we tolerate it with repair speeds?

A vet2 280 manpower Sturmpio squad with a 30 ammo investment has 2.5x the repair speed of a 200mp Pioneer squad.

Yes, I stacked the numbers a bit to illustrate the bias. But imagine if there existed an OKW unit that had 2.5x the DPS of its Wehrmacht counterpart?

We do not tolerate such huge fluctuations in DPS or hit points or penetration in game in units of comparable tiering and roles. Nor should we, it would be insane. It would be like vet2 Grenadiers with a 30 ammo LMG inflicting triple the DPS of other core rifle infantry at medium range.

Then why do we tolerate it with repair speeds?

Because OKW special snowflake forever

Because OKW special snowflake forever

Fair is fair, it's not like they have a free durable non-doctrinal zero micro repair sta... Oh

Fair is fair, it's not like they have a free durable non-doctrinal zero micro repair sta... Oh

Well, at least they also need to pick a doctrine to bring real heavy armor to the field.... oh...