Things that ruin team games, but don't affect 1v1

Team games are a pretty big clusterfuck and balance depends heavily on maps. Wide maps are alright but narrow team game maps are awful when it comes to balance. USF struggles massively against Ost snipers when you can only really charge right at them, Brit emplacements are a pain in the ass when you can't really focus anywhere else on the map, and lategame axis become impossible to deal with when they have a Jagdtiger + support parked in the middle of the map and don't really have to reposition all that much to cover the sides of the map.

Wisdom speaks through this guy

Wisdom speaks through this guy

Red Ball express needs to take a long walk off a short pier if you ask me.

Just lol to this thread.

I think most of the players need to rethink how they play, blobb isnt everything.

+ 1 to redterror.

There are people out there who have friends and enjoy playing with them.

solution: play 1v1 with your friends (or 2v2 against each other)

I've heard this exact argument before. For some reason people treat potential teammates as wild beasts that you can communicate with exclusively through grunts or something. I find that even random teammates can be reasoned with.

Don't peddle your lies here, DEMON!

OUT wi' ye.

OUT!

Skill planes.

In 4v4, we can have all these different air abilities flying at once. We used to have a limit to how many p47s strikes could be in the air concurrently. With the Brits new abilities, you have 3 different type of OP plane abilities all flying around at once. Its unfortunately game changing and cheap play. Players now build ammo caches to stock munitions just for this very purpose. Its madness. Limit the air abilities to one per team at any given time.

agree with everything except Tech/Building Independent Call-in Vehicles

down with FRP already.

Brit Emplacements need a redesign. The current design (brace, counter-system) is an all-or-nothing system. This will only allow for fluctuation between complete irrelevance (and thus no indirect fire for Brits) or Sim City abuse (and high levels of salt, everywhere).

- OKW

• Bundled AA
  

This one's tricky because it could affect 1v1. One Schwer HQ on the field and you can still use air based munitions abilities (sort of). 2-4 Schwer HQs on the field and you immediately shut down all plane abilities. Many Soviet and the USF Airborne commanders are now firmly out of the meta.

The (first) AA, currently comes completely free to the OKW player, and is strong enough to withstand anything but a fully-committed frontal assault.

If a player is good, they can capitalize on the strong (and completely free) bonuses that this ability gives. However, if you are good enough, you really didn't need the enormous advantage that the T4 flak provides anyway.

If somebody messes up and loses this, they immediately fall on a terrible disadvantage, since replacing the T4 is way more expensive than the utility the free AA provides. This, again, is an example of an all-or-nothing design (see emplacements).

My proposal:

• The T4 comes with no flak weapon attached to it. (you need to upgrade)
  
• If you ever have to replace the T4, you can do it for free (the price of the HQ truck; does USF/UKF pay for anything to repair their base?)
  
• However, every time you want to redeploy the AA canon you need to pay some price.
  
• Paying the same price as an 17-pounder would do the trick, since the gun is great at deterring infantry, and also good enough to deter medium armour rushes (with 10 popcap, though, equal to Bofors)
  
• As a compensation, the gun should become controllable by the player (maybe even with attack ground).
  
• (The Bofors is currently way too underpriced, and everybody knows this).
  

Skill planes.

In 4v4, we can have all these different air abilities flying at once. We used to have a limit to how many p47s strikes could be in the air at once. With the Brits new abilities, you have 3 different type of OP plane abilities all flying around at once. Its unfortunately game changing and cheap play. Players now build ammo caches to stock munitions just for this very purpose. Its madness. Limit the air abilities to one per team at any given time.

Quoted for Truth.

Air Supremacy
Remember when Air Superiority was nerfed so that it wouldn't one-shot OKW trucks? That was a great change. Now it is an awesome denier ability, and if you want to use it offensively to wipe OKW trucks, you also have to follow up with an assault (otherwise, you just wasted 300+ munitions).

... unless of course you use 2 of them at the same time. No counterplay possible (if the map forces you to bunch up trucks).

OST JU-87 AT loiter
The ability alone is borderline broken. However, you can mitigate this by making sure your tanks are always at full health (and hugging the enemy tanks when the ability is used mid-combat). It also helps if you keep an AA unit in the rear to shoot the ability down.

... unless the enemy decides to summon two of these abilities at the same time. This will instantly annihilate ANY vehicle present, in the first pass (including Churchills, or any unfortunate AA unit that you happened to be present). Because, counterplay. JU-87 spam waits for no man, woman, child or small furry animal.

agree with everything except Tech/Building Independent Call-in Vehicles

down with FRP already.

Since Relic seems to be actually reconsidering fundamental aspects of the game (e.g., vehicle crush), wouldn't it be a great idea to also trial removing FRPs? At least in the official balance preview patch?

OST JU-87 AT loiter
The ability alone is borderline broken. However, you can mitigate this by making sure your tanks are always at full health (and hugging the enemy tanks when the ability is used mid-combat). It also helps if you keep an AA unit in the rear to shoot the ability down.

... unless the enemy decides to summon two of these abilities at the same time. This will instantly annihilate ANY vehicle present, in the first pass (including Churchills, or any unfortunate AA unit that you happened to be present). Because, counterplay. JU-87 spam waits for no man, woman, child or small furry animal.

Also note that these airstrikes need LOS now which makes a big difference

Also note that these airstrikes need LOS now which makes a big difference

For 1v1, perhaps (where the ability is expensive). For anything above that, not really.

The problem is that the JU-87 planes acquire targets on the enemy armour INSTANTLY the moment the ability activates. Thus, even if you IMMEDIATELY move all your tanks out of the circle (even out of LOS), the first strafe is going to be successful (for both planes). (If you don't have good initial vision, just yell to an ally to throw some Artillery Flares on top. Done.)

Now, add the fact that multiple teammates can focus fire on the same "armour" blob, and there is no counterplay to that.

This is a bit like the pre-nerf Artillery Cover. Only that this time there is ABSOLUTELY no delay; and that you can't really dodge the planes if there's 4 of them coming to you at the same time:
- If a tank has low armour, it's dead
- If it has high armour, deflection hits will crit the target to stun it. Thus, it's dead either way.

People not using their tiger correctly. Affects 2v2 mostly. Example being zezocker

Kappa Keepo

I think the title here a little strong, but I agree with the OP. The issues he raises are certainly something to consider for a balance mod.

FRP removal for all factions would be so amazing. The USF major could have an On me! ability instead.

I think the title here a little strong, but I agree with the OP. The issues he raises are certainly something to consider for a balance mod.

FRP removal for all factions would be so amazing. The USF major could have an On me! ability instead.

Or some kind of "Combined Arms" ability.

Free teamgames AA for okw.

FRP is an issue for numerous reasons, ie you play as Steppes against OKW and your faction is Soviets. That would be a potential massive advantage.
IMO the real problem is that Ostheer and Soviets don't even have a doctrinal option for that, whereas for the other three, they are non-doctrinal; for WFA armies it's a given because they are part of teching up. You'd think at least the shittier commanders like Defensive Tactics would have a FRP ability alongside M-42 peashooter.

But no, I hate having to retreat men all the way to other side of Sittard or Steppes. If there's a problem with FRP, it's that not all factions have it and should, not none at all. That's also a huge part of UKF design.

I personally find it a bit silly that the OKW schwerer works better as anti-air than the intended anti-air halftrack from the soviets.

Also note that these airstrikes need LOS now which makes a big difference

The real problem with this ability in multiplayer games is a second commander ability:

1x OKW Artillery Flares (constant area LOS)
2x OST JU-87 AT loiter (fast kill)

All you need to destroy any tank force, this combination is way better than all allied plane combinations I can think off.

Edit: Just saw Mr. Smith wrote this already. But it was in a longer text, so maybe it is good to point this out clearly.

The real problem with this ability in multiplayer games is a second commander ability:

1x OKW Artillery Flares (constant area LOS)
2x OST JU-87 AT loiter (fast kill)

All you need to destroy any tank force, this combination is way better than all allied plane combinations I can think off.

Edit: Just saw Mr. Smith wrote this already. But it was in a longer text, so maybe it is good to point this out clearly.

Im not disagreeing that this is the most powerful anti tank combination, im just saying that the OST JU-87 AT loiter does require LOS to be effective.

It does require good coordination between the team members though which will only happen in AT games.

Im not disagreeing that this is the most powerful anti tank combination, im just saying that the OST JU-87 AT loiter does require LOS to be effective.

It does require good coordination between the team members though which will only happen in AT games.

I believe they do not self scout anymore

This way he gets punished for too aggressive truck placement, but not to much because some commanders don´t make any sense without aggressive truck placement.

Then use the rigth commander if you plan to use aggressive truck placement, same way a UKF player won´t use cancer commander if he don´t plan to build emplacements....


Commanders a strategic decision, and it would be nice if no one commander is usefull in every mach, every game mode, every map, every situation.....