Non-meta doctrine fixes [UKF]

So I was gonna post this in another thread that went on about a weak UKF doctrine. When I was finished, I decided to make a new thread instead so I can cover them all. Everything is subject to fine-tuning and this is supposed to give you ideas rather than go on about specific numerical values. I like making everything worthwhile rather than picking on useful doctrines until they're as non-functional as the others, unless something is simply OP. These changes do not list the preview balance mod changes, for ease of writing.

Feel free to make your own thread about the other factions. Ima try to do it otherwise.

Tactical Support Regiment

Designate Command Vehicle
- Working

Field Recovery Operation
- The ability should call in one unit at a time and be reduced in CP cost to the time when you'd normally reach T2 to avoid calling in superfluous units, or be made a passive upgrade for normal engineers

Air Resupply Operation
- 150 munitions for a couple of weapons that come too late to use instead of making those units normally if you needed them in the first place, a small combat bonus & fairly superfluous healing because no one goes for flares on tommies... and you can't call in any one thing of the ability separately, which also affects the balancing of this ability. I would remove the redundant weapon drops, lower the munitions cost and reduce the CP cost to 3, this for the purpose of actually using it as "tactical support" for earlier engagements.

Artillery Cover
- Working. (I guess? never used it since I don't have the doctrine)

Forward Observation Post
- Make this ability an upgrade for both ambient buildings and forward assemblies. If used on a forward assembly it fortifies it somewhat. Reduce the CP cost to 0. Make the abilities unlock at certain CPs. Reduce the munitions costs of the abilities. Maybe reduce the innate fuel cost of the ability.

* I feel all these changes would add up to create a doctrine which effectively supports you throughout the game instead of the non-functional afterthought it is now.


Commando Regiment

Smoke Raid Operation
- Does this really need to come no sooner than 4 CPs? Vanguard has the same ability without any smoke, but it's cheaper and also lets vehicles capture points. And that ability comes at 1 CP. I think this ability should be reduced in CP cost. Yes, it hides your squads, but your enemy knows this because the smoke alerts him that they are hidden.

Assault
- Working

Commando Glider Insertion
- Working

Mortar Cover
- Working

Air Supremacy Operation
- Working

* Not sure what this commander would need beyond this or if it would be in a workable state that offers something other commanders don't, as every commander should. Feel free to comment.


Royal Artillery Regiment

Early Warning
- Working.

Concentration Barrage
- Up the amount of shells fired... it shouldn't be firing just 3 just because you haven't teched to T3 yet when it costs the same. Simply make it fire 6 shells always like it eventually does, and if you have both howitzers it divides the shells between them so your bonus for teching becomes a double firing rate rather than a double shell amount. Either that or halve the cost until you reach T3.

Observation Detachment Valentine
- Reduce the CP cost and look over the fuel cost to see if it's okay or needs a reduction. It should have somewhere around the same timing as an AEC, unless its combat ability makes it too strong for that (I honestly wouldn't know, because I've never seen it once and I don't remember its effect when I did use it).

Artillery Support Group
- Why does this ability come at 9 CP in an artillery doctrine, when other field howitzers come at 8? just wondering. And obviously it needs some buff.

Perimeter Overwatch
- Basically you are paying a load of munitions so your artillery can actually fire... but only in friendly territory.... without any input from you..... I would add that the ability makes the base howitzers fire faster and that they can fire on enemy territories which are directly (ie. frontline) connected to yours. And 25 pounders themselves still suck, they would need a buff too like sextons.

* This would make the doctrine workable at what it's supposed to do.


Royal Engineer Regiment

Stand Fast
- Working.

Designate Command Vehicle
- Working.

Vehicle Crew Repairs
- Working.

Anti-Building Flame Mortar Support
- I've never seen this ability do anything, not even sure if it works, and I think the concept sucks in the first place. Why should it only be able to target buildings? Make sure the ability actually works and then remove the building requirement. If it's too weak or too devastating (again, never seen it so don't know) then adjust its power.

Demolition Specialist "AVRE"
- Why does the Sturmtiger come at 11 CPs but the AVRE which has both less range and more importantly much less one-shot ability of tanks come later than it at 12? especially considering that the AVRE is the main appeal of this commander. I would lower the CP cost to 11, maybe 10 unless that's too powerful. It does have to be noted that the AVRE will receive an indirect buff against tanks when the next patch hits, as the tulip rockets will immobilize them for it, so I think with that and the CP decrease this unit will be in a great spot where it's worth getting but not OP.

* Needed changes to this doctrine that make it solid instead of not really worth getting over something else (*cough* Meta Assault Regiment/Meta Operations/Advanced Meta Regiment).



What do you guys think?

Interesting

Royal engineer does not have to be on this list. The issue of it not being present in 1v1 is that it is being blocked out by cheese.

AVRE is fine.

it has faster reload and can do so on the move. better anti-infantry tool than sturm IMO.

If anything, i would move it to 13 to be in-line with other heavies.

Let me get this straight, you're suggesting fixes for commanders you don't even own or have experienced for yourself? Alright then, carry on.

AVRE may be fine even though I would argue a CP decrease to 11 may be justified, but I don't think you can tell me with a straight face that anti-building flame mortar support is anything but a filler ability in its current state.

Let me get this straight, you're suggesting fixes for commanders you don't even own or have experienced for yourself? Alright then, carry on.

I haven't experienced and don't own them for a reason (well, other than them being DLC). That being, any seasoned CoH-series player can analyse that they're not worth using just by looking at them. The Forward Observation Point offers 0 AT which isn't a problem except that it costs enough fuel to seriously detract from your tank force, arrives much later than all of its abilities normally would except the artillery, is a nigh-guaranteed loss on investment because ambient buildings that it needs to be placed on can't be repaired, and costs a ton of munitions in a doctrine which already includes plenty of munitions-intensive abilities. You don't need to actually use it to conclude that's unusable compared to calling in a crocodile, land mattress, AVRE, or whatever.

Some things I will refrain on commenting on due to lack of playing the game (Relic made me have no choice, the optimisation got so bad that it became unplayable but now it's better). One such thing is the Stug E for example, which I will need to double-check the performance of since last I remember and I wouldn't comment on it until then. But everything I've commented on here I've either used or can make direct comparisons to something I do have experience with.

Tactical Support Regiment

If you ever get this doctrine, use it. It's a matter of the bits that work being good enough to distract from the terrible abilities.

The main issues are Field Recovery Operation and Forward Observation Post, for the reasons you've described and I like your suggestions. Decreasing the cost of the FOP and actually giving Recovery Engineers the ability to build things would also be good.

I disagree with you on the Air Resupply Operation. Getting healing, faster reinforcement and cheap team weapons is very useful if you've been on the wrong end of some artillery or need an AT gun urgently. I wouldn't mind a CP decrease for it though.

Commando Regiment

The only other issue with this commander is that the Commandos are extremely overpriced (500 for one squad vs. 350 in Vanguard). Adding the ability to produce Commandos from the glider and/or reducing the cost of the Glider call-in would go a long way.

You could also make the glider permanently cloaked unless an enemy unit comes too close (surprisingly easy to mod in) or allow Sapppers to repair the glider.

Royal Artillery Regiment

Concentration Barrage could do with firing more shells per howitzer but it's mostly fine as it is. The main issues with this doctrine are with the Valentine and the Sexton.

The Valentine would be quite a useful unit, allowing you to take the Bofors without forgoing a light vehicle and scaling into a UKF version of the T34/76 with more utility, if Relic hadn't halved the damage of its main gun in UKF release patch. Increasing the damage from 80 to 120 or 160 would be enough to fix the Valentine.

The Sexton's a bit of a mess. It costs less than the Priest but has significantly less range, fires fewer shells per salvo, and has a worse AOE profile. As long as you chose a buff that affected its main role (i.e., not health or armour) you couldn't go wrong.

Royal Engineer Regiment

The problems with ABFMS:

- It comes too late (8cp) to be used in early-game garrison fights
- It costs too much (150 mun) to be used in early-game garrison fights
- It's unreliable (instead of using an overwatch action, it checks the area at 15-second intervals for enemies in buildings and defensive structures)
- OKW trucks (one of the major fortifications UKF faces) are specifically exempted from the ability

I'd make these changes:

- CP requirement reduced from 8 to 4
- Cost reduced from 150 to 75 munitions
- Ability now uses an overwatch action (so the ability constantly checks whether anyone meets the target criteria)
- OKW trucks made more expendable or take reduced damage from this ability instead of being completely immune

From all of these probably Anti-Building Flame Mortar Support needs rework the most.

The ability have literally no sense.

Its garrison deterrent and... thats it, nothing else since it won't target anything that isn't ambient garrisoned building.

Smoke Raid Operation
- Does this really need to come no sooner than 4 CPs? Vanguard has the same ability without any smoke, but it's cheaper and also lets vehicles capture points. And that ability comes at 1 CP. I think this ability should be reduced in CP cost. Yes, it hides your squads, but your enemy knows this because the smoke alerts him that they are hidden.

This one is my FAVOURITE ability in the entire game (all factions/commanders etc). What the ability does is:

For every unit you own that is in friendly territory, give them a buff that:
1) Gives them the ability to stealth ANYWHERE on the map
2) Allow the unit to decap faster

The affected units retain both bonuses even if they move on enemy territory. The ability is best used offensively on units that can actually hold fire (i.e., Commandos, Snipers), when you want to pull off a nasty flank.

(If a squad was not on friendly territory when you activated the ability, it doesn't receive either bonus).

Otherwise, the only issue with this commander is that the only non-munition-costing ability is overpriced. Do as Svanh said, basically.

Anti-Building Flame Mortar Support
- I've never seen this ability do anything, not even sure if it works, and I think the concept sucks in the first place. Why should it only be able to target buildings? Make sure the ability actually works and then remove the building requirement. If it's too weak or too devastating (again, never seen it so don't know) then adjust its power.

Currently, there is one and only single use for this ability. It's for 4v4 when your opponent is emplacement-spamming (bunkers, Pak43, caches), and is foolish enough to place many such emplacements next to each other (e.g., command & healing bunker next to a Pak43). One single application is good enough to destroy OST bunkers in one go.

I would rather that this ability drop flames on all buildings, even ungarrisoned ones.

Demolition Specialist "AVRE"
- Why does the Sturmtiger come at 11 CPs but the AVRE which has both less range and more importantly much less one-shot ability of tanks come later than it at 12? especially considering that the AVRE is the main appeal of this commander. I would lower the CP cost to 11, maybe 10 unless that's too powerful. It does have to be noted that the AVRE will receive an indirect buff against tanks when the next patch hits, as the tulip rockets will immobilize them for it, so I think with that and the CP decrease this unit will be in a great spot where it's worth getting but not OP.

AVRE is one of the best support-gun negaters in the game. If the AVRE comes any earlier than this, this will have an effect similar to an extremely-early KT vs USF (with no Jacksons); OST will simply have nothing to counter it with (yes, Stugs; but Stugs are nothing without support).

With an early AVRE, the following can very-well become a very valid strat:
- Royal Engineer spam
- No T3
- Stall with Pak wall and/or PIATs and wait for AVRE

The best counter to REng spam is support weapon spam. However, an early AVRE will throw that counter out of the window. Basically, this is going to be the CaptainSPrice UKF strat on steroids.

I would say it's the Sturmtiger that needs some toning down, instead.

Field Recovery Operation

Air Resupply Operation

Artillery Cover

Forward Observation Post

Both field recovery and Air resupply work in synergy. Also the engis come with sweeper straight from the bat and are a good platform to put them PIATS on. Munition for mp is always a good trade (in fact, this should mimic to USF doctrines with paradrop support weapons).

Artillery cover remains as one of the best offmaps in the game and the sole reason you would choose this commander. Instead i think AC should be part of one of the Forward Observation Post abilities and this thing reworked.

Proposal: cost of building, abilities and CP reduced. Possibility of using Forward assemblies as FOP. Swap artillery cover with strafing run.

Commando Regiment

Smoke Raid Operation

Commando Glider Insertion

See Mr.Smith/Svanh comments

Royal Engineer Regiment

Anti-Building Flame Mortar Support

Demolition Specialist "AVRE"

Flame barrage should also target neutral buildings as well.
Avre is fine. AVRE/ST could be brought to same CP levels.


Regarding Royal Artillery, since almost no one use it, i have almost none xp regarding how the changes needs to be implemented.

Commando regiment should not have 4 high munitions cost abilities and commandos. At least 2 of these should be changed to something else.

Royal Engineer regiment needs love. The flame mortar is a joke, currently sits near the bottom of abilities in the game.

Royal Artillery is bad. Even with the Sexton getting a buff I see no reason to pick this doc. Occasional flares over the lines is fine, overpriced coordinated fire is marginal, Valentine is not sufficient for cost and pop (also why would I would to pay a premium for a unit designed to stay out of combat?), Sexton is currently terrible is getting less terrible in patch, and the overwatch is bugged and useless. Considering how much artillery is intended to be dropped by the player overwatch just won't be available anyway.

Of the other commanders, which are all locked behind pay walls. Most of them are ok, some are very good, all are better than the free ones. Arty cover is still very powerful and I don't understand why I would want to spend munitions on anything else once I have it. Making the forward observation point better as a result is silly. I will continue to use the arty cover instead. The forward observation point should be considerably reworked or discarded. It may even be better to remove it entirely and place the sexton or croc in the doctrine.