(may preview post first update) okw early game

in a 1v1, giving schreck to the sturm didn't really help them against light vehicle. their presence is far too small to fight against the allied light tank.

as a result, the medical truck is at a serious disadvantage against the early t70 or stuart. Raketen and faust are not enough.

The okw AA ht should get a buff to make it a viable counter against light vehicle. Its penetration should be high enough to ward off the early t70, stuart, and aec. this would give the medical truck extra defense against early vehicle. I suggest a penetration buff to 35 to match the 222's 20mm cannon.

I would also recommend a setup buff. 4 seconds is way too long. 3 seconds would be more manageable. the 37mm on the US aaht only take 2.13 second, and that unit has two .50cal for back up.

in a 1v1, giving schreck to the sturm didn't really help them against light vehicle. their presence is far too small to fight against the allied light tank.

as a result, the medical truck is at a serious disadvantage against the early t70 or stuart. Raketen and faust are not enough.

The okw AA ht should get a buff to make it a viable counter against light vehicle. Its penetration should be high enough to ward off the early t70, stuart, and aec. this would give the medical truck extra defense against early vehicle. I suggest a penetration buff to 35 to match the 222's 20mm cannon.

I would also recommend a setup buff. 4 seconds is way too long. 3 seconds would be more manageable. the 37mm on the US aaht only take 2.13 second, and that unit has two .50cal for back up.

I´d love to see some buff to the AA HT. Never seen it on the battlefield for ages.

Maybe add a little health buff too, so it can survive a second PAK shot?

I'd be concerned at the UKF's ability to Snare, if the AA HT gets stronger against the AEC.

Considering its tiering, its fragility, the fact it requires a spotter for full range action, and the fact it can be taken with its pants down if not set up, proper positioning of the AAHT should be rewarded. Not sure about proposed penetration - I am okay with creating a no-go zone for the m20, the m5, or the Bren carrier. Stuart, AEC and t70 should still be able to take it out.

Edit: To clarify, I think the aforementioned vehicles should be able to just barely take it out in a purely 1v1 scenario. If the AAHT is supported in any way (Sturm Schreck, Volks faust) it should win.

if you cant kill a T-70 with raks and fausts, you are way too used to heat-seeking shrek spam.

considering any combination of 3 hits is guaranteed to kill it. It has less HP than a 222.

OKW have the cheapest, earliest AT in the game. it can move and set up faster than any AT gun, and thus is great at fighting lighter tanks.

it is the maxim in AT format.

not to mention you have F R E E snares and shreks without requiring A N Y research.

how EZ-mode u want okw?

Lollll, So OP is a typical OKW player that can not adapt this game after the easy mode got removed.

But seriously - what wrong was with volksshrecks? They were perfect target for Calliopes and Matresses... What at should I shoot now?

I also agree with Firesparks, in that I literally see ZERO reasons why I should ever pay for an AAHT, when I can get an mg34 for cheaper. Essentially, the AAHT is the new penal :3

However, I am not convinced that giving the AAHT AT capabilities would be the right way to go here (or we will be creating a new monster). The reasons are:
- Blobbing around AAHT
- OKW is still the best-equiped faction to deal with light-tank rushes

In fact they now have more options about how to deal with that (which means they can choose how to mix and match them):
- An AT gun that can still cloak
- Early access to schrecks
- Also, an option to faust

That is to say, if OKW managed to fend off light vehicles alright so far, they should be able to do so better with the new patch (In the beginning of the game, access to schrecks is bottlenecked by the munitions income, rather than MP income -- i.e., how many Sturms you are willing to make).

Thus, I think that the AAHT should remain vulnerable (but not yolo-rushable) to rushing light tanks. What I would recommend is a QoL change, for starters:
- Give AAHT access to smoke at Vet0 (but make it cost munitions); that way you can support infantry pushes with it
- Fix the damn damage of flak vehicles vs garrisons, already! (by upping the accuracy modifier).

(the OKW AAHT is probably the only vehicle in the game that can lose to a Brit sniper garrisoned in a trench).

Not sure about proposed penetration - I am okay with creating a no-go zone for the m20, the m5, or the Bren carrier. Stuart, AEC and t70 should still be able to take it out.

Edit: To clarify, I think the aforementioned vehicles should be able to just barely take it out in a purely 1v1 scenario. If the AAHT is supported in any way (Sturm Schreck, Volks faust) it should win.

the OKW aaht already create a no go zone for the allied really light vehicle. the current 20 penetration on the AAHT is more than enough to pen the m20,m5, or the bren carrier.

the OKW AAHT have very limited mobility and extremely vulnerable on the move. It's an easy target for the allied anti-tank gun. If the USF has the stuart he has access to the 57mm. The USF AAHT and okw AAHT should zone each other out. UKF have easy access to 6 pounder.

If sov have the t70 he can build the su-76.

AA turck to hardcounter aec? Than reduce ability to kill infantry by 90%.

Even an M3 wrecks OKW now. Just like the good old Paula/Molo days, let alone the super accurate M20 or M5 the meat grinder

AA turck to hardcounter aec? Than reduce ability to kill infantry by 90%.

Bofors is a hard counter to all light vehicles.

An Anti infantry Flak HT that reliably challenges AECs and T70s - the supposed counter to light vehicles - is absurd.

I would like to see a cap on Schrecks. Schrecks should get moved back to Volks. Every truck that is set up gives you the ability to field one Schreck for a maximum of three Schrecks in the lategame when all trucks are fielded. If a truck is destroyed one Schreck less can be fielded. Thus Volks remain relevant in the lategame, the Med HQ doesn´t offer zero AT options and Volksblobs are kept in control because you can´t have more than one Schreck in the early-mid game (until the second truck arrives). Also there is counter-play involved. See how that works.

If that´s too strong, set the Schreck maximum to two and/ or remove the Panzerfaust.

Even an M3 wrecks OKW now. Just like the good old Paula/Molo days, let alone the super accurate M20 or M5 the meat grinder

M3 is worse against OKW now that they have Fausts.. I swear you don't play this game

I don't get what this thread is about - you have Raks, fausts AND sturms with shreck and your still whining about a t70. Adapt ffs.

The title is a bit deceptive. Call it, AA HT needs some QoL changes and we are done.

This thing relies on bugs to be useable that is not fun at all if you want to "properly" use it as it will bug out.

An Anti infantry Flak HT that reliably challenges AECs and T70s - the supposed counter to light vehicles - is absurd.

I would like to see a cap on Schrecks. Schrecks should get moved back to Volks. Every truck that is set up gives you the ability to field one Schreck for a maximum of three Schrecks in the lategame when all trucks are fielded. If a truck is destroyed one Schreck less can be fielded. Thus Volks remain relevant in the lategame, the Med HQ doesn´t offer zero AT options and Volksblobs are kept in control because you can´t have more than one Schreck in the early-mid game (until the second truck arrives). Also there is counter-play involved. See how that works.

If that´s too strong, set the Schreck maximum to two and/ or remove the Panzerfaust.

the stuart, t70 and the aec are more like generalist light vehicle. They can attack both infantry and tank (althought aec lean a bit more toward anti-tank).

the okw aaht is also extremely vulnerable everytime it has to move, and its armor is pretty thin. You can actually force the AAHT to move by using mortar.

Just compare it to the M5 and you'll realize how god awful it is

Even an M3 wrecks OKW ME now. Just like the good old Paula/Molo days, let alone the super accurate M20 or M5 the meat grinder

/fixed4u

On topic:
We all remember old good times (right after Soviet tech overhaul) when Soviet M5/M17 shred both infantry and light vehicles like 222.
OP basically wants an anti-everything unit which is obviously bad design.

Since Relic seems to be adopting so many of Miragefla's balance changes from his CE mod, just use his changes to the 251/17 Flak HT:

251 Flak HT

AOE boost to make it more effective against grouped infantry and reduced its non-vet set-up time to better allow it to deploy and redeploy to areas it is required to be. Smoke given a munition price due to OKW now having full income. Penetration improved to help deter approaching light vehicles.

-AOE increased to 1.3 from 1
-Initial set-up time reduced from 4 seconds to 3
-Smokescreen costs 20 munitions from 0.
-Damage versus garrison cover from 0.25 to 0.375.
-Non-vet and vetted weapon have 100% increase in damage against aircraft and 50% increased penetration.
-Weapon penetration from 20 to 35.

Since Relic seems to be adopting so many of Miragefla's balance changes from his CE mod, just use his changes to the 251/17 Flak HT:

251 Flak HT

AOE boost to make it more effective against grouped infantry and reduced its non-vet set-up time to better allow it to deploy and redeploy to areas it is required to be. Smoke given a munition price due to OKW now having full income. Penetration improved to help deter approaching light vehicles.

-AOE increased to 1.3 from 1
-Initial set-up time reduced from 4 seconds to 3
-Smokescreen costs 20 munitions from 0.
-Damage versus garrison cover from 0.25 to 0.375.
-Non-vet and vetted weapon have 100% increase in damage against aircraft and 50% increased penetration.
-Weapon penetration from 20 to 35.

+1 these would make the AAHT actually usable for once and I really hope they make some kind of change because I have been wanting to use this unit for a long time.