A unit needs weaknesses. Speed is the Tiger's.
Its far to easily countered by a lot cheaper units despite them being TDs.
Tiger without claws?
11 May 2016, 00:47 AM
#41
Posts: 1072
Its far to easily countered by a lot cheaper units despite them being TDs.
11 May 2016, 01:31 AM
#42
Posts: 2561
Pershing can flank the tiger very easily and get away if need be. Tiger can't run and can't flank. Too slow.
The game doesn't take place in a vacuum and it's not always likely a pershing will be able to flank uncontested. And even in a vacuum a tiger that's backing up and turning can keep up with a pershing, it's not slow, but it ain't a panther.
Pershing usually needs to take advantage of the tiger getting snared or being distracted to really flank it. Tiger wins head-on in any 1-on-1 engagement between good players.
11 May 2016, 01:50 AM
#43
Posts: 199
Its far to easily countered by a lot cheaper units despite them being TDs.
So what?
Multiple times I have used a puma or two to take out ISU-152 and IS-2's. Used M10s to take out JT's, KT's and elephants.
Anything caught out of position is fair game and cheaper doesn't mean it shouldn't win. The Tiger has Blitz and smoke to compensate for lower speed if you don't throw it away.
11 May 2016, 02:03 AM
#44
Posts: 875 | Subs: 2
Could use a frontal armor buff; otherwise, it's fine.
11 May 2016, 02:24 AM
#45
Posts: 1072
So what?
Multiple times I have used a puma or two to take out ISU-152 and IS-2's. Used M10s to take out JT's, KT's and elephants.
Anything caught out of position is fair game and cheaper doesn't mean it shouldn't win. The Tiger has Blitz and smoke to compensate for lower speed if you don't throw it away.
Im saying that ONE of any allied faction can 1v1 a tiger. Not "one or two" or multiple mediums, im saying ONE. I understand that TDs are the hard counter to heavies but the tiger just doesn't bounce shots and is too slow to actually get in range of hitting the enemy tanks with its powerful gun.
Also, blitz costs munitions and smoke is doctrinal and only 1 commander has tiger and smoke.
11 May 2016, 02:26 AM
#46
Posts: 1072
The game doesn't take place in a vacuum and it's not always likely a pershing will be able to flank uncontested. And even in a vacuum a tiger that's backing up and turning can keep up with a pershing, it's not slow, but it ain't a panther.
Pershing usually needs to take advantage of the tiger getting snared or being distracted to really flank it. Tiger wins head-on in any 1-on-1 engagement between good players.
I agree. This statement was in response to someone saying tigers roll over all allied tanks which, without support, I disagree with.
11 May 2016, 03:28 AM
#47
Posts: 954
Allied don't have super TD like JT or Elephant, I do feel Tiger survive well, Ostheer Armors get outshine by OKW armor, KT is way more tempting than the good old Tiger, PPL are playing OKW more, and OKW is more fun/more toys
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
11 May 2016, 03:36 AM
#48
Posts: 199
Im saying that ONE of any allied faction can 1v1 a tiger. Not "one or two" or multiple mediums, im saying ONE. I understand that TDs are the hard counter to heavies but the tiger just doesn't bounce shots and is too slow to actually get in range of hitting the enemy tanks with its powerful gun.
Also, blitz costs munitions and smoke is doctrinal and only 1 commander has tiger and smoke.
Hold the press!
So ONE of any axis Meds/TD's faction can beat a Perishing, IS-2 or ISU-152. Anything with a slow turret traverse is pray to more mobile tanks and doesn't remotely only apply to the tiger. That is my point. JT, KT, Ele are all in the same boat but to a greater extant.
Your argument of it being to slow is relative. Try chasing a reversing Panther only a few vehicles can match it. I do agree that the Tiger needs a little love but speed and mobility shouldn't be it a slight buff to frontal armour would suffice.
You over extend with any heavy or flanked you should be punished. You want a tank to reverse fast build a Panther.
11 May 2016, 03:46 AM
#49
Posts: 247
Tiger is fine, EFA repair capabilities could see improvements.
Yeah, this is the main thing. Tiger has always been slow to repair, which was fine back when it was just OH vs SU. Even with WFA it wasn't so bad because USF had fast repair to compensate for mediocre armour. So tiger is still mostly OK against SU and USF (currently game, not balance preview) but has trouble against UKF because they good armour combined with faster repairs.
I do think the tiger (and all heavies) will struggle to be relevant if the nerfs to rear armour and buffs to allied TDs go through. In such a situation a bit of a buff to HP might give the tiger the staying power to actually be used offensively as a spearhead tank rather than an expensive bait for enemy tanks.
11 May 2016, 03:55 AM
#50
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
And why would it get any kind of buff?
It was just buffed with range and penetration.
It doesn't need anything more for its in a good spot.
Its suppose to be A choice, not THE choice.
Every time I looked at your signature I get upset.
bg /l
11 May 2016, 05:45 AM
#51
Posts: 432
Well we don't want a King Tiger 2.0 for Wehrmacht either. The buff in Tiger's health needs to corresponds with other cost increase or pop cap.
Why the hell would it need MORE popcap or cost increase? It's already one of the most ludicrously expensive pieces in the Wehrmacht arsenal and it's been nerfed repeatedly without any cost or popcap decrease to compensate.
If anything in needs to be buffed so that its capability are back on par with its high cost and extremely late game prerequisite (CP-12 anyone?)
11 May 2016, 05:48 AM
#52
Posts: 5279
i think the tiger is mostly fine, it did receive a few buffs recently (will always outrange mediums and will always pen them, comet aside) maybe like 20-25 more frontal armour but thats about it (enough to negate the recently green su85 buff)
it reliably kills infantry and it has blitz for a lil extra oomph from the engine if needed
its also in like 5 doctrines iirc, very good ones at that so its much less exclusive and much more flexible in how you can use it than the perch or is-2
it reliably kills infantry and it has blitz for a lil extra oomph from the engine if needed
its also in like 5 doctrines iirc, very good ones at that so its much less exclusive and much more flexible in how you can use it than the perch or is-2
#stalinwept
11 May 2016, 06:15 AM
#53
Posts: 366
i think the tiger is mostly fine, it did receive a few buffs recently (will always outrange mediums and will always pen them, comet aside) maybe like 20-25 more frontal armour but thats about it (enough to negate the recently green su85 buff)
it reliably kills infantry and it has blitz for a lil extra oomph from the engine if needed
its also in like 5 doctrines iirc, very good ones at that so its much less exclusive and much more flexible in how you can use it than the perch or is-2
This I agree with.
The Tiger is in far more doctrines offering more versatility in strategies.
The Tiger does have Blitz at vet 1 so a speed buff would not fit it (and in some doctrines panzer tactician, O god).
The Tiger has the same pen and range as the king tiger.
The Tiger rear armor is being reduced to 140, same as the IS-2.
The Tiger has a faster firing rate and better accuracy.
The Tiger takes less experience to vet over the IS-2.
So the only buff I would say would be a small front armor buff to 320 or 325, slightly better than the ISUs front armor which is 310. Also the engineers in the EFAs do need their repair rate improved.
Please correct me if I am wrong with something.
11 May 2016, 06:57 AM
#54
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
From all heavies, Tiger suffered the most after Relic declaration of war to old call-in system.
I would like see it buffed somehow but I can't see how. What I know is that Tiger it's not as relevant currently and in most of situations it doesn't really worth building. Maybe this feeling is also created by the fact that OH, as a faction, is quite weak right now and this weakness is even more striking in the balance patch preview. So I think OH late game tools as a whole need some changes in order to compensate its weak early-mid game, or OH as a faction needs some kind of improvement....
I would like see it buffed somehow but I can't see how. What I know is that Tiger it's not as relevant currently and in most of situations it doesn't really worth building. Maybe this feeling is also created by the fact that OH, as a faction, is quite weak right now and this weakness is even more striking in the balance patch preview. So I think OH late game tools as a whole need some changes in order to compensate its weak early-mid game, or OH as a faction needs some kind of improvement....
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
11 May 2016, 06:57 AM
#55
Posts: 1930
all this back and forth between the tiger's armor and the penetration on the TD has got to stop. The jackson and the firefly are specalized tank destroyer vulnerable up close.
the tiger have one of the fastest firing tank gun in the game. It will beat any allied tank 1v1 with the possible exception of the IS2. Even the pershing will most likely lose.
You can't have a tiger that can beat any allied tank in a brawl, and then complain the tiger get picked off by Allied long range TD.
the tiger have one of the fastest firing tank gun in the game. It will beat any allied tank 1v1 with the possible exception of the IS2. Even the pershing will most likely lose.
You can't have a tiger that can beat any allied tank in a brawl, and then complain the tiger get picked off by Allied long range TD.
11 May 2016, 07:02 AM
#56
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
all this back and forth between the tiger's armor and the penetration on the TD has got to stop. The jackson and the firefly are specalized tank destroyer vulnerable up close.
the tiger have one of the fastest firing tank gun in the game. It will beat any allied tank 1v1 with the possible exception of the IS2. Even the pershing will most likely lose.
You can't have a tiger that can beat any allied tank in a brawl, and then complain the tiger get picked off by Allied long range TD.
Yes they can, they are actually doing it.
The only point I agree on is Tiger isn't anymore the get to go and it is fine, the unit doesn't anymore compensate your lack of skill all the game long and win you the match. But for the people still asking for it, they can always select Elite doctrine.
11 May 2016, 07:05 AM
#57
Posts: 1740
and extremely late game prerequisite (CP-12 anyone?)
As far as I remember, the Tiger arrives at 13 Command Points. I'm pretty sure that the Spearhead Tiger arrived at the same time as the fragmentation bombing run in earlier patches.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
11 May 2016, 07:06 AM
#58
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
From all heavies, Tiger suffered the most after Relic declaration of war to old call-in system.
Because it was most cancerous, most spammed, most reliably and strongest unit.
Obviously it'll feel the most being brought back in line with others.
What I know is that Tiger it's not as relevant currently and in most of situations it doesn't really worth building. Maybe this feeling is also created by the fact that OH, as a faction, is quite weak right now and this weakness is even more striking in the balance patch preview. So I think OH late game tools as a whole need some changes in order to compensate its weak early-mid game, or OH as a faction needs some kind of improvement....
Because, again, its AN option, not THE option.
And please, don't try to support yourself with balance preview, ost got plenty of buffs there as well, faster and cheaper tech being most relevant one, but considerable buff to 251 is also nothing to ignore.
Tiger doesn't deserve any buffs, because it doesn't need any buffs.
The only cheaper units that fight it off(still lose in slugfests badly) are TDs and this is how it should be.
No med can pen it reliably frontally.
TDs can and should.
This is how it is and I got the feeling that people screeming for armor buffs are the ones who confused it with KT and want to roll TDs with it as well. Guess what? Not happening.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 May 2016, 07:08 AM
#59
Posts: 1930
The tiger have the fastest firing gun on any turreted tank. The only units that actually fire faster and damage 160+ damage are the three casemate td.
In the preview mod, the su-85's firing rate actually got nerfed as well. This mean that the only tank destroyers that actually fire faster than the tiger are both axis.
In the preview mod, the su-85's firing rate actually got nerfed as well. This mean that the only tank destroyers that actually fire faster than the tiger are both axis.
11 May 2016, 07:10 AM
#60
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
I like that the Tiger lost some of it's tank hunting capability. This gives commanders a bit more of a pause when deciding whether T4 or even the rarely seen Elefant would be a better option.
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