su85 feels somewhat nerfed.

And what about scatter hits?

it does a thrilling 160 dmg

Lol so better stick with SU-76 horde for now. When I get a heavy TD, I expect it to hit hard, not tickle heavy like that. M10 with HVAP is better in every way and much cheaper, Jackson can now spot and fire, Firefly gets skill Tulip and blitz from Hammer. Seriously what advantages does the SU-85 got compared with other heavy TD?

Lol so better stick with SU-76 horde for now. When I get a heavy TD, I expect it to hit hard, not tickle heavy like that. M10 with HVAP is better in every way and much cheaper, Jackson can now spot and fire, Firefly gets skill Tulip and blitz from Hammer. Seriously what advantages does the SU-85 got compared with other heavy TD?

Comparing units out of context is wrong. It will lead to mirrored factions if you balance units that way.
SU-85 have advantage in 6-man mainline infantry with snare and ability that buffs speed.

yeah... i dont know..

vet 2 SUs really kicked ass, even against heavys.

not sure this is really am improvment,

how is its pen compared to a firefly and such?

maybe give it proper TD damage, its lack of turret makes it difficult enough depending on the map.

Lol so better stick with SU-76 horde for now. When I get a heavy TD, I expect it to hit hard, not tickle heavy like that. M10 with HVAP is better in every way and much cheaper, Jackson can now spot and fire, Firefly gets skill Tulip and blitz from Hammer. Seriously what advantages does the SU-85 got compared with other heavy TD?

And the SU-85 has the highest penetration at range and rate of fire of either three stock Allied TDs with one of the Allied TDs relying on an expensive gimmick to get anything done. Furthermore, it probably has the highest survivability against the the main predators of TDs which is ATGs by being the hardest to hit.

It is worse against heavies in terms of the number of shots required to kill, but it's also not as punished for its misses and does better at the range their intended to fight at. Furthermore, it can self-spot which helps it as the Jackson got a massive hit to its self-sighting veterancy in the Balance Preview. Firefly can get a TC for more LOS, but it's also the most expensive TD of the bunch and can still die at the same rate as the SU-85 if not faster.

Penetration
SU-85: 240/230/220

Jackson: 240/220/200

Firefly: 260/240/210

Accuracy

SU-85: 0.055/0.045/0.04 (0.5 Moving)

Jackson: 0.055/0.045/0.035 (0.75 Moving)

Firefly: 0.08/0.07/0.05 (0.75 Moving)

Reload Including Wind-up/Windown

SU-85: 5.4

Jackson: 7.425 (Includes wind-down and wind-up)

Firefly: 10 (8 in Preview)

And people saying that the SU-85 tickles heavies, most games show heavies and tanks will generally back away after receiving 1-2 penetrating shots unless it's an all in or it's chasing a badly wounded unit. And the SU-85 only needs 1 more shots to kill the 1040 and 1280 heavies which by that point, it has already put in another shot thanks to its faster reload. It also penetrates the KT 76% of the time at veterancy 2 with that penetration buff versus 51% of the time with its old penetration.

And the SU-85 has the highest penetration at range and rate of fire of either three stock Allied TDs with one of the Allied TDs relying on an expensive gimmick to get anything done. Furthermore, it probably has the highest survivability against the the main predators of TDs which is ATGs by being the hardest to hit.

It is worse against heavies in terms of the number of shots required to kill, but it's also not as punished for its misses and does better at the range their intended to fight at. Furthermore, it can self-spot which helps it as the Jackson got a massive hit to its self-sighting veterancy in the Balance Preview. Firefly can get a TC for more LOS, but it's also the most expensive TD of the bunch and can still die at the same rate as the SU-85 if not faster.

Penetration
SU-85: 240/230/220

Jackson: 240/220/200

Firefly: 260/240/210

Accuracy

SU-85: 0.055/0.045/0.04 (0.5 Moving)

Jackson: 0.055/0.045/0.035 (0.75 Moving)

Firefly: 0.08/0.07/0.05 (0.75 Moving)

Reload Including Wind-up/Windown

SU-85: 5.4

Jackson: 7.425 (Includes wind-down and wind-up)

Firefly: 10 (8 in Preview)

And people saying that the SU-85 tickles heavies, most games show heavies and tanks will generally back away after receiving 1-2 penetrating shots unless it's an all in or it's chasing a badly wounded unit. And the SU-85 only needs 1 more shots to kill the 1040 and 1280 heavies which by that point, it has already put in another shot thanks to its faster reload. It also penetrates the KT 76% of the time at veterancy 2 with that penetration buff versus 51% of the time with its old penetration.

Ok so the SU-85 does have its advantages and it needs some time to get used to, it's just that after a long time using Jackson/Firefly, I'm kinda allergic to turretless vehicle that have poor acc (Jackson/Firefly kites Tiger like a champ but SU-85 is more of a ambush type of vehicle). So new SU-85 needs a lot of babysitting compared to before in exchange to more reliable dmg output against heavy tanks.

And the SU-85 has the highest penetration at range and rate of fire of either three stock Allied TDs with one of the Allied TDs relying on an expensive gimmick to get anything done. Furthermore, it probably has the highest survivability against the the main predators of TDs which is ATGs by being the hardest to hit.

It is worse against heavies in terms of the number of shots required to kill, but it's also not as punished for its misses and does better at the range their intended to fight at. Furthermore, it can self-spot which helps it as the Jackson got a massive hit to its self-sighting veterancy in the Balance Preview. Firefly can get a TC for more LOS, but it's also the most expensive TD of the bunch and can still die at the same rate as the SU-85 if not faster.

Penetration
SU-85: 240/230/220

Jackson: 240/220/200

Firefly: 260/240/210

Accuracy

SU-85: 0.055/0.045/0.04 (0.5 Moving)

Jackson: 0.055/0.045/0.035 (0.75 Moving)

Firefly: 0.08/0.07/0.05 (0.75 Moving)

Reload Including Wind-up/Windown

SU-85: 5.4

Jackson: 7.425 (Includes wind-down and wind-up)

Firefly: 10 (8 in Preview)

And people saying that the SU-85 tickles heavies, most games show heavies and tanks will generally back away after receiving 1-2 penetrating shots unless it's an all in or it's chasing a badly wounded unit. And the SU-85 only needs 1 more shots to kill the 1040 and 1280 heavies which by that point, it has already put in another shot thanks to its faster reload. It also penetrates the KT 76% of the time at veterancy 2 with that penetration buff versus 51% of the time with its old penetration.

su 85 is turetless and slow asf now reloading wats the point of vet2 penetraion chance if it lose all its attack speed. it really need its reload speed back at vet to or nerf all axis vet speed to to make it fair cuz su85 is crapier then i thought it was gona be with tons of testing on the preview. hard to kill tank now while chasing them cus su reloads slow. u hit a corner and get murdered cuz no turret and slow rotation. i think if u would made the su85 vet like 15% pen and 15% ROF would be fine not take all the speed away from only the su85. its turretless its not a jackson or firefly... its need its speed

Turreted TDs for slightly more fuel get better damage, better positioning options, more utility.

the disadvantage of not having a turret is not worth self spotting (a job filled by infantry), it has no armor, poor turning, poor accuracy, and shoots the ground if there is any kind of uneven terrain.

as for having 10 more penetration.. whoopty doo.

the Jagpanzer is in the same boat, but at least has 5-stars, cloak, and decent armor.

I hate turretless TDs, they take alot more effort for similar performance. if this games pathing doesn't leave it doing circles.

I can just have 2 FFs, Panthers, Jacksons and just troll around blowing any armor away like a walk in the park, instead of taking my nuts to a cheese-grater to get the toasters on wheels to point the right way. and heaven forbid if the enemy goes around a building or rock.