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russian armor

(preview mod) m8a1 scott

4 May 2016, 13:53 PM
#22
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2016, 13:46 PMMyself

Have you tried the patch major arty?


Well yes, I agree that its good and finally useful and will definitely give USF another option for breaking PAK walls.

The point is that the balance patch changes were made in the context of the current patch, and right now the Major's Arty is 100% useless (unless you count using up Munitions as a purpose). Even if the Major Arty buff goes live (it should) it still won't fill the Scott's role for the many reasons that should be obvious.
4 May 2016, 14:12 PM
#23
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

@JohnSmith and Myself: Post invissed, do not keep up your respective crusades against each other, we've already had this conversation before.
4 May 2016, 14:14 PM
#24
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

The Scott in my opinion didn't need to be buffed this hard it just needed a cost reduction, build time reduction, and health. In mirage's mod it would destroy infantry and be spammed. Well if the stats for the scott here are the same as Mirage's Competitive Edition Mod.
4 May 2016, 14:25 PM
#25
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

..
The point is that the balance patch changes were made in the context of the current patch, and right now the Major's Arty is 100% useless (unless you count using up Munitions as a purpose).
...Even if the Major Arty buff goes live (it should) it still won't fill the Scott's role for the many reasons that should be obvious.


Comments that are made here are in the context of the current patch changes and not the live game...

I did not say the Scott should be filled by the major. I simply responded to a question asked by Smith and you also seem to agree that in the patch major arty is a valid answer to pack a wall.
4 May 2016, 14:28 PM
#26
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2016, 14:12 PMSwift
@JohnSmith and Myself: Post invissed, do not keep up your respective crusades against each other, we've already had this conversation before.


nice sig

4 May 2016, 14:29 PM
#27
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

I do not believe that having the Major buffed is a valid reason for the M8A1 not getting some love. I saw a few more Scotts in this preview mod, and that's quite awesome - and they're doing alright for an endgame T4 unit now.
4 May 2016, 15:04 PM
#28
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

Noone claimed that Major arty is reason not buff the M8 and noone claimed that M8 should not be buffed.

The whole point of this thread is that the buffs in the AOE of the unit are simply too much.
4 May 2016, 15:12 PM
#29
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

Simply too much compared to what though?

It's a T4 endgame unit, it should perform at least like other T4 units. In live (non patch) it does not even compare to anything, and with a simple HP buff it wouldn't be any better either.
4 May 2016, 16:35 PM
#30
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

I don't see how the AOE buffs made it too powerful. It was to make the Scott actually be a tad more damaging outside of direct hits.

Let's look at the stats here for the Preview:

AOE Radius: 4

Damage: 100

AOE Mid: 2
AOE Far: 3

AOE Mid Modifier: .25
AOE Far Modifier: .10

While the drop-off is not as steep, the M8's profile still drops off incredibly harsh past 1m to 25 damage at 2m with a further drop-off to 10 at 3m and beyond.

If anything, upon reflecting on this, the M8 Scott should be modified where its OHK radius is smaller but its AOE is much higher at mid and far so it can cause more consistent and noticeable damage outside of direct hits.
4 May 2016, 16:51 PM
#31
avatar of Looney
Patrion 14

Posts: 444

The scott was nerfed so hard that this arguably "huge" buff made it not OP but viable.

Though to be fair, the health increase wasn't really neccesary imo. Though then it's back to getting one shotted by pak43s.
4 May 2016, 17:01 PM
#32
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 149

Now scott isn't OP but viable , it always kills some models, but without full squad wipes.
It's a good buff.
4 May 2016, 17:05 PM
#33
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

I don't see how the AOE buffs made it too powerful. It was to make the Scott actually be a tad more damaging outside of direct hits.

Let's look at the stats here for the Preview:
...

It's lethal AOE (+80 damage) and damage at range 4 is better than 120 MM mortar (120mm does damage up to range 6 though). It has a lower trajectory thus better vs moving targets and can a attack Paks with impunity.

It quite lethal and difficult to counter...
4 May 2016, 17:06 PM
#34
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

buffing USF core units, especially in the AI department actually makes docs outside of Pershing and Calliope more viable. USF needed that AI power, especially gainst A-moving LMG grens and Obersoldaten.
4 May 2016, 17:06 PM
#35
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2016, 17:05 PMMyself

It's lethal AOE (+80 damage) and damage at range 4 is better than 120 MM mortar (120 does damage up to range 6 though). It has a lower trajectory thus better vs moving targets and can a attack Paks with impunity.

It quite lethal and difficult to counter...


And this is how we can tell you haven't played the game for at least a year.

If you did, you'd knew that 120mm deals 80dmg. :snfBarton:
4 May 2016, 17:25 PM
#36
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677



And this is how we can tell you haven't played the game for at least a year.

If you did, you'd knew that 120mm deals 80dmg. :snfBarton:


You might have started reading but now comes the difficult part of actually understanding what you read...

I did not claim that 120mm does more than 80 but that the m8 does... and it actually does 100 damage...so it does lethal damage (+80 damage) in bigger radius than than the 120mm...
4 May 2016, 17:33 PM
#37
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2016, 17:25 PMMyself


You might have started reading but now comes the difficult part of actually understanding what you read...

I did not claim that 120mm does more than 80 but that the m8 does... and it actually does 100 damage...so it does lethal damage (+80 damage) in bigger radius than than the 120mm...


M8 Near AOE Distance: 1

120mm Near AOE Distance: 1.5

Furthermore, the 120mm has much less drop off sitting at 0.5 at 3m vs the Scotts 0.1(Mod) at 3m. And the 3m is the 120mms mid-range, not its far.

Even with 100 damage, I'm pretty sure the M8's damage is less than the 120mm at 1.5 meters, like somewhere around 50 damage given how harshly the 75mm drops-off.

4 May 2016, 17:34 PM
#38
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Ok then.

So more expensive unit, which does more damage gets bigger kill radius.

You think that is wrong why again?
4 May 2016, 18:03 PM
#39
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677



M8 Near AOE Distance: 1

120mm Near AOE Distance: 1.5


You are correct about the 1.5 near AOE of the 120mm the data I was looking had it listed as lower...

the M8 at range 1.5 should be doing around 62.5 damage...

Lethal AOE for the M8 should be around 1.27
4 May 2016, 18:18 PM
#40
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Hint

The m8A1 was horribly ninja nerfed a few months ago. The AOE buffs only buff it to it's prenerf state.

The only buff to it is the 400 health, which IMO due to the increased cost for major is more than acceptable.
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