Armor Company is Highly Overrated

Assault Engineers have niche applications and the M10 is good. Not one of the best doctrines, sure, but there are loads of commanders that are worse than this one. See, uh, NKVD Tactics and German Infantry Doctrine.

Don't forget Royal Arty!

Let's be honest, there are two kind of USF players. those who bought or droped Pershing/Calliope commanders and use them 90% of their games.
And the others stuck with Armored Commanders sharing the load with Rifle company and a random third one.

Assault Engineers have niche applications and the M10 is good. Not one of the best doctrines, sure, but there are loads of commanders that are worse than this one. See, uh, NKVD Tactics and German Infantry Doctrine.

I'd say Jaeger Infantry's worse than Infantry. Ain't no one got munitions for that.

I once call a 240mm barrage on Flak Truck and none of the shells hit it, unless the whole sector is crowded with enemies the results tend to be... varying.
Sturmpio reinforce for 32mp, AE 35mp and they scale really poorly compared to Sturmpio. I would prefer AE to armed with M1 Carbine and drop their reinforce cost to like 28-30mp. You can never have more than 1 of them cuz they bleed mp like crazy.

well if you want to kill HQs you use mech 155, if you wanna break a concentrated turtle covering an approach then use 240.

i though ae's reinforced for 28mp. all my life. guess not but still even then I usually insta retreat them if they look like theyre gonna get focused and bleed.

I just wish there were more viable cqc 1v1 maps/areas. in 2v2 I can usually get alot done with the engies/crew combo but currently in 1s theres basically only southern khlodny ferma VP area with all the hedges that comes to mind where SMG usf troops can actually be used to good effect.

maybe summer semoiskiy in between the hedges and between the houses too. But we need another stalingrad if vehicle crew thompsons are to shine like they should in 1v1

yes m10s are op crushers but theyre main opness is being fuel coupons.... when you've had a cutoff fest of a game, theyre invaluable.

Which is why they would be just fine without the infantry crushing capabilities.

+youre underestimating vehicle crew thompson + ass engy tactical control group on the right map. Dont use them on langres, dont use them to charge up. ambush and watch them shred. otherwise you're setting them up to fail.

Don't act like that's the intended design of them.

Relic intended them to be used inside vehicles, popping out when in danger to destroy an AT gun or fausting infantry. This idea being terribly niche and more likely to end up with your tanks being driven away by the enemy then to help you in any way.

The situation you proposed is just players trying to make light of a shitty ability. You are almost always better off just investing in bars, and it would be far less redundant if literally any other unit had the upgrade instead of the vehicle crews.

The arty offmap is tied with mech arty for being the best usf has, except its more situational so i guess the edge goes to mech arty.

It's not a bad ability, which is why I didn't propose changes, but please don't compare it to mech arty. I go mech just to get that arty so I can counter pak40s and OKW bases. 280mm is an ability I use just because I have some extra muni lying around

well I agree I guess, even though you dont see sturmpios charging up to just about anybody past the early game and doing anything productive either, unless properly positioned and supported. Thats just a grass is greneer on the other side mentality. they reinforce for the same cost and AE's cost less than sturmpios.

I think the big defference between sturms and assault engis is that sturms don't have to get AS close. With sturms you can easily run up into medium range into some cover and still do good DPS. While ass engis barely do any damage if you aren't right up in your enemies faces. So sturms end up not having to take as much risk if they don't want to.

Not to mention axis generally have more units that are better at long range, making retreating from close range generally more risky for the ass engis.

Relic intended them to be used inside vehicles, popping out when in danger to destroy an AT gun or fausting infantry. This idea being terribly niche and more likely to end up with your tanks being driven away by the enemy then to help you in any way.

The situation you proposed is just players trying to make light of a shitty ability. You are almost always better off just investing in bars, and it would be far less redundant if literally any other unit had the upgrade instead of the vehicle crews.

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Well how do you know what relic intended? The squad uses para thompsons and gets above average received accuracy pretty fast.

So my assumption is to use them as more micro intensive rangers. And for the most part it works, they beat just about anything if you don't just for the motherland style them across red cover.

And they're better than bars at extreme cqc, so there's your reason to upgrade one squad with a thompson.

I mean I'd rather have them for combat than a bar rear echelon. Nothing unsolid at all about a 4 rifle captain Thompson crew composition in the late early game.

Im pretty sure that Relic did not design them to jump out from vehile, replace them with RE and use them as normal infantry. That's just hard trying to use useless ability in some useful way.

Well how do you know what relic intended? The squad uses para thompsons and gets above average received accuracy pretty fast.

Get that M10 behind AT gun/weapon team, jump out, mow down the crew, jump back in, proceed on the journey to find a new adventure?

So my assumption is to use them as more micro intensive rangers. And for the most part it works, they beat just about anything if you don't just for the motherland style them across red cover.

And they're better than bars at extreme cqc, so there's your reason to upgrade one squad with a thompson.

They don't have any kind of combat scaling, the moment 2nd vet star appears for the enemy, their effectiveness diminishes rapidly unless, as I've said, you put them vs team weapons.

I mean I'd rather have them for combat than a bar rear echelon. Nothing unsolid at all about a 4 rifle captain Thompson crew composition in the late early game.

If you ignore the part, where they don't have combat scaling and can't fight effectively non vet0-1 inf

Well idk wtf happened to that post but it was along the lines of oh well I give up,

I already said they get decent vet and a really good weapon. It comes down to the user and map. I had replays vs some darn gud players but the goddamn patches broke them.

So whatevr plebs, I'll continue to pwn grens/volks with ease with the most sleeper OP unit in the game. Bye

Well, the weapon isn't really bad at all, no denying that.

I'd say it would be more useful if it was more accessible, aka cheaper.

It won't make the crews into normal inf, but you can feel the pain if you're not careful.

It's like M10 crushing.

It's really good but did Relic really intended to design such amazin crush on M10? I don't think so.

I would say that if we only consider the non-DLC doctrines, Armor Company is pretty damn good. Also, it's consistently reliable all modes; from 1v1 through 4v4 (but for different reasons).

I am mostly with Cookies on this one. However, I will concede that some troll units/abilities need a bit of help:

Bulldozer Sherman

With the Volksblob being thrown out of the game, this unit will already become 10x more viable. This unit could benefit from the treatment Brumbar is getting this patch, and you are going to start seeing more of them.

Currently, I only build this unit when I need Heavy Crush (the thing that destroys everything; like Panthers, Tigers etc do).

I also love the unit for the insane amount of damage it deals vs ambient buildings when you ram that tank against them.

Elite Vehicle Crews

This ability may have a very niche role in 1v1's (everything above that is a clusterfuck; not worth stepping out of the tank to use it). If the ability were cheaper, we would probably see more frequent use of it.

Thought experiment:
- Would reducing the price to 30 Munition make this upgrade appealing to use?
- Would 30 Munitions make it too OP? Then increase the price and reiterate.
- I would say that 60-ish munition is definitely not too expensive, but it's not too cheap either.

The only way anybody is going to abuse this ability and spam vehicle crews is:
- If they spam AAHT or Stuarts (M20 crews cannot be upgraded with Thompsons); not very cost effective
- If they are CptSPrice and decide to spam M10s. Your vehicle crews will not have to remain idle at the base. Also, at the same time you have your swarm ready.

Everything else is fine-ish

Assault Engineers
A great utility unit, but don't spam it as your main combat unit

280mm barrage
- In bigger modes, having more than 2 OKW players on the field means that they are going to stick their trucks next to one another. Ever wondered what happens when you throw this ability in the middle of OKW-Ville as the enemy blobs retreat?
- Sure, the ability can be replaced by another one, and nobody will miss it. However, a straight buff to this ability would turn it into a monster.

M10 Wolverine
- Nuff said.

The best ability is to skip teching Major. That's what makes up for the Dozer's cost, once you get out some m10s you can get a meh-tier dozer for some way to hurt support weapons. Then you tech up.

M10 is amazing, Dozer is meh, Ass engis are pretty decent, thompsons are situational, artillery is pretty good. All comes together to be a great doctrine. It's got decent call in infantry, great call in tanks, off map artillery, what more could you want from a doctrine? You've got all your bases covered.

Better invest in the major for reco/FRP than dozer. Dozer is good if there are shot blockers and can build a green cover for itself.

Next patch if Major buff is confirmed, it will be better to always go Major for cheap arty (same if they x2 the arty cost before releasing the patch) instead of Dozer and Doctrinal arty.

Bulldozer Sherman

With the Volksblob being thrown out of the game, this unit will already become 10x more viable. This unit could benefit from the treatment Brumbar is getting this patch, and you are going to start seeing more of them.

Kinda curious how does Bulldozer compare vs. Brumbar currently far as AOE profile, etc. goes? Relic seems to have a peculiar blind spot when it comes to doctrinal units when it comes to patches (Lend-Guards Guards getting stuck with crappy retro PPSH, Mechanized Grens with old school super rifle grenade range, Greyhound completely forgotten during light vehicle tweaks, the list goes on...) I mean you would think if Current Bulldozer and Brumbar are similar that the Bulldozer would get buffed as well if the Brumbar does.

Not gonna lie, I've always dreamed of Bulldozing my opponent inside his base on Semois. Summer by blocking off the bridges with the Move Dirt ability lol

Kinda curious how does Bulldozer compare vs. Brumbar currently far as AOE profile, etc. goes? Relic seems to have a peculiar blind spot when it comes to doctrinal units when it comes to patches (Lend-Guards Guards getting stuck with crappy retro PPSH, Mechanized Grens with old school super rifle grenade range, Greyhound completely forgotten during light vehicle tweaks, the list goes on...) I mean you would think if Current Bulldozer and Brumbar are similar that the Bulldozer would get buffed as well if the Brumbar does.

Not gonna lie, I've always dreamed of Bulldozing my opponent inside his base on Semois. Summer by blocking off the bridges with the Move Dirt ability lol

Your wish is my command: Sadly the sherman is inferior in many aspects to the pre-buffed Brummbar. Ask yourself how many times you see them. I see Brumbars from time to time, sometimes even more than one. The last time I saw a 105mm was as I played it myself about 6 month ago.

Here are the stats, Sherman always first, then Brummbar:

Armor front: 200 / 260
Armor rear: 80 / 105
Healthpoints: 720 / 800
Speed max: 5.3 / 5.7
Damage: 160 / 160
AOE far: 3.38 / 3.75
AOE near: 1.13 / 1.25
Penetration: 35 / 120
Deflection: no / yes 50% damage
turret: yes / no
Scatterdistance: 4.8 / 2.5
Reload: 7.13 / 8.38
Manpower cost: 380 / 470
fuel cost: 140 / 160
Population 14 / 14

All stats not listed are pretty much the same. As you can see Sherman has three advantages: has turret / shoots about a second faster / cost less ressources

So while Reload, AOE and ressource cost of Brummbar will get buffed we hear nothing about 105mm which is pretty much inferior to the pre-buffed Brummbar combat wise. Less durable and especially its scatterdistance is awful. Sherman is more a specialist than the Brummbar because its purely AI (Brummbar can do something at least and has additional stun shot as a vehicle snare) but it performs worse when it comes to AI. Thats just silly if you take into account that it is locked behind a single commander in this game.

I personally think buffing Brummbar is the right thing, but please do not forget poor Sherman 105mm. At the moment I would always take the more versatile normal Sherman with its decent HE shells.

...and please put M10 + 105mm in Major Tech. Can't understand why they are still Call-ins.

Your wish is my command: Sadly the sherman is inferior in many aspects to the pre-buffed Brummbar. Ask yourself how many times you see them. I see Brumbars from time to time, sometimes even more than one. The last time I saw a 105mm was as I played it myself about 6 month ago.

Here are the stats, Sherman always first, then Brummbar:

Armor front: 200 / 260
Armor rear: 80 / 105
Healthpoints: 720 / 800
Speed max: 5.3 / 5.7
Damage: 160 / 160
AOE far: 3.38 / 3.75
AOE near: 1.13 / 1.25
Penetration: 35 / 120
Deflection: no / yes 50% damage
turret: yes / no
Scatterdistance: 4.8 / 2.5
Reload: 7.13 / 8.38
Manpower cost: 380 / 470
fuel cost: 140 / 160
Population 14 / 14

All stats not listed are pretty much the same. As you can see Sherman has three advantages: has turret / shoots about a second faster / cost less ressources

So while Reload, AOE and ressource cost of Brummbar will get buffed we hear nothing about 105mm which is pretty much inferior to the pre-buffed Brummbar combat wise. Less durable and especially its scatterdistance is awful. Sherman is more a specialist than the Brummbar because its purely AI (Brummbar can do something at least and has additional stun shot as a vehicle snare) but it performs worse when it comes to AI. Thats just silly if you take into account that it is locked behind a single commander in this game.

I personally think buffing Brummbar is the right thing, but please do not forget poor Sherman 105mm. At the moment I would always take the more versatile normal Sherman with its decent HE shells.

...and please put M10 + 105mm in Major Tech. Can't understand why they are still Call-ins.

Brummbar is faster than Bulldozer, wtf is this? Oh and don't forget never fire when on the move, both these vehicles have shit accuracy, Bulldozer has trouble hitting OKW truck on moving from around 30 range.

Here are the stats, Sherman always first, then Brummbar:

Armor front: 200 / 260
Armor rear: 80 / 105
Healthpoints: 720 / 800
Speed max: 5.3 / 5.7
Damage: 160 / 160
AOE far: 3.38 / 3.75
AOE near: 1.13 / 1.25
Penetration: 35 / 120
Deflection: no / yes 50% damage
turret: yes / no
Scatterdistance: 4.8 / 2.5
Reload: 7.13 / 8.38
Manpower cost: 380 / 470
fuel cost: 140 / 160
Population 14 / 14

Thanks for taking the time to put that together... kind of sad how bad the Dozer is outclassed by the Brumbar (which itself is pretty bad in its current form).

280mm barrage: just make the first shell land on point. For the rest, just keep it as now, the CoH2 Russian roulette.