Bofors

It's definitely not free. The cost of the gun is blended into the price. The risk involed in the flak truck is huge. I can't spam it and when I lose it my next tank costs an extra 135 fuel.

No, its not, just like it wasn't for medics and repair pios, who are now side grades, its a free perk of cheapest teching and a leftover from when OKW had resource penalty and needed some additional bonuses-not the case any longer.
Don't believe? Compare tech prices of all armies and see for yourself

No, its not, just like it wasn't for medics and repair pios, who are now side grades, its a free perk of cheapest teching and a leftover from when OKW had resource penalty and needed some additional bonuses-not the case any longer.
Don't believe? Compare tech prices of all armies and see for yourself

Are you including the cost of the trucks? Flak truck costs 300 mp 135 fuel. There is also a lot more risk assosiated with the flaktruck. Like lossing a truck to a light tank rushing you base (edit) or losing it while building

didn't the flak truck get a price increase from 90 fuel to 120?

didn't the flak truck get a price increase from 90 fuel to 120?

Yes. But there is now a cost on the trucks, as before the trucks were free

Are you including the cost of the trucks?

He is.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g5csCZt9UrVnNy-k9w8DRh1F6Rzeu7hMCLXZoxSdNRk/htmlview#gid=0

That spreadsheet does not take account for the way people ACTUALLY tech. Take USF for example, a majority of players decide either Lt or Captain before going Major for tanks. That is a lot cheaper than the spreadsheet makes out. Not many good players tech serially, unless forced (ukf). Soviets also usually decide either tier 1 or 2 before 3 or 3,4. Ost choose tier 1 or 2 then they choose either tier 3 or tier 4 (with tier 3 research). Basically its not as simple as that chart makes out.

That spreadsheet does not take account for the way people ACTUALLY tech. Take USF for example, a majority of players decide either Lt or Captain before going Major for tanks. That is a lot cheaper than the spreadsheet makes out. Not many good players tech serially, unless forced (ukf). Soviets also usually decide either tier 1 or 2 before 3 or 3,4. Ost choose tier 1 or 2 then they choose either tier 3 or tier 4 (with tier 3 research). Basically its not as simple as that chart makes out.

It's true that calculating the teching cost is a rather complicated business. Firesparks chose to do it this way, and you are right to have objections to this.

How would you recommend to calculate the teching costs?

Basically, if you could provide a similar-looking spreadsheet, it would really help to prove your point.

I don't know the level of differences between the OKW and OH Tanks but isn't this somewhat covered in the expense of their vehicles? 25 more fuel for both p4 and panthers.

Also, OKW has a dynamic that almost requires being fully teched out (t3>t2>t4), as where OH can skip t3. In this senario it's okw (560/230) vs OH (420/215). USF skipping cap is (520/205). I'm not going to try the Brits because I don't know the flow, but SOV do get screwed.

I don't know the level of differences between the OKW and OH Tanks but isn't this somewhat covered in the expense of their vehicles? 25 more fuel for both p4 and panthers.

PIV comes with skirts (vet2 from OH), OKW PV IIRC has better mgs and accuracy on the move. PLUS both have better vet (including vet1 combat blitz).

Also, OKW has a dynamic that almost requires being fully teched out (t3>t2>t4), as where OH can skip t3. In this senario it's okw (560/230) vs OH (420/215). USF skipping cap is (520/205). I'm not going to try the Brits because I don't know the flow, but SOV do get screwed.

You are still skipping 150mp + 60muni for healing for OH. I'm not sure how you got those numbers as USF (mp wise).

@Rappy if we want the whole picutre:
OKW: T1 + T3 and T1 + T2 (with call in, specially C. PV) are also realistically options.
T2 + T3, specially for teamgames, is possible as you rely on teammates healing.

SU: T1 and skipping T2 all together doesn't seem possible unless teamgames.

OH: i don't see people skipping T2 at all, and i think those who skip T1 in favor of a more aggresive Osstruppen or Pios+MG+222 will back tech later on. OH can play as well without any T3 or T4 at all (call in).

USF: LT + Cpt + Major is not weird at all. LT + Cpt into call ins is also an option.

UKF: the only faction which can realistically survive without the upgrades till really late game (no one gets nades, 5th guy or weapons are not a must early and Bofor/Aec are optional leading to fast cromwell strats)

That spreadsheet does not take account for the way people ACTUALLY tech. Take USF for example, a majority of players decide either Lt or Captain before going Major for tanks. That is a lot cheaper than the spreadsheet makes out. Not many good players tech serially, unless forced (ukf). Soviets also usually decide either tier 1 or 2 before 3 or 3,4. Ost choose tier 1 or 2 then they choose either tier 3 or tier 4 (with tier 3 research). Basically its not as simple as that chart makes out.

I absolutely agree, but how people actually tech is irrelevant to the point that was made.

And as already stated, it's 'free'. With support of volks blob and ISGs, it's also extremely resilient. It also doesn't take any flame damage like emplacements do.

Dude, you are not going to convince us, so you are better off letting this one go

And guess what, Bofors is 4 times as free as the Flak HQ!

It's definitely not free. The cost of the gun is blended into the price. The risk involed in the flak truck is huge. I can't spam it and when I lose it my next tank costs an extra 135 fuel. The risks involved in using the flak truck are no where near the Bofors risk lies. Losing the truck can lose you the game. The Bofors isn't susceptible to much flames considering getting a flame unit close to it is impossible unless it's in brace or next to a sight blocker.

Not to mention, you lose it, there goes the option of building panzers.

Just stop encouraging him already.

Dude, you are not going to convince us, so you are better off letting this one go

Puhleeeeeaze. Read the last 10-20 posts. THere are plenty that agree. Maybe it's just you who doesn't and that's fine. Don't lump your opinion with others. For all other noobs who can't calculate and say truck costs means it gets a free weapon. T4 OST = 100+260 MP & 45+75 = 360 MP and 120 FU. Schwerer HQ = 100+200 MP & 15+120 FU = 300 MP & 135 FU. I don't see a T4 OST building being built on rear cutoff points, 0 pop cap, being able to shoot down aircraft, 2000 hp, damage and suppress infantry, and penetrating vehicles. Do YOU?

The building and weapon are a part of teching cost. It's free.

I think the flak truck bonus is a player choice dependant. If a player chooses to set up on a fuel point or center vp, he has to accept the risk of losing t4 to make a bigger impact on the game. If he places it in his base the impact is much less but the risk is minimized.

This risk dynamic is not present with the bofors.