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Resource Caches

2 May 2016, 02:16 AM
#21
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

Okw does not need caches. Period.

+2

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 02:08 AMTobis
OKW needs something else to spend manpower on besides units, but not caches.

It would be much easier to just reduce the manpower income, but increase the initial amount of manpower. It would fit the faction very well.
2 May 2016, 02:50 AM
#22
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1


+2


It would be much easier to just reduce the manpower income, but increase the initial amount of manpower. It would fit the faction very well.

Ehhhhhh, considering release Soviet Industry, that's incredibly dangerous.
2 May 2016, 03:07 AM
#23
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 640 | Subs: 1

Since we are tossing ideas around and cutoff protection was the cited reason, how about a 100 manpower "observation post" that has roughly the same endurance as a cache, disables capping the point while alive just like a cache does, and gives line of sight? Maybe if you want to really go wild on the design side make it garrison 1 squad or provide advanced vehicle detection (minimap only, just like Soviet commander ability) in a 70ish radius.
nee
2 May 2016, 05:39 AM
#24
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

Prsonally I prefer if OKW did it in a unique way.

Adding to my Kubel idea (toggle to lock down), they can also toggle to cloak, so as to ensure survival. Locking down may also be dependent on the cloak toggle: ie uncloaked means it cannot be decaptured, whereas cloaked means it decaptures slower. Any smart enemy would notice and attempt to scout for the cloaked Kubel, so OKW player still needs to enact some defense and not lock down stuff with their cheapest vehicle and assume a GG.

The result is that Kubels remain a strategically viable unit throughout a match- want to ensure that VP sector is sector but cannot afford men? Keep a Kubel there to hold them off.
3 May 2016, 04:47 AM
#25
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

Since we are tossing ideas around and cutoff protection was the cited reason, how about a 100 manpower "observation post" that has roughly the same endurance as a cache, disables capping the point while alive just like a cache does, and gives line of sight? Maybe if you want to really go wild on the design side make it garrison 1 squad or provide advanced vehicle detection (minimap only, just like Soviet commander ability) in a 70ish radius.


jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 05:39 AMnee
Prsonally I prefer if OKW did it in a unique way.

Adding to my Kubel idea (toggle to lock down), they can also toggle to cloak, so as to ensure survival. Locking down may also be dependent on the cloak toggle: ie uncloaked means it cannot be decaptured, whereas cloaked means it decaptures slower. Any smart enemy would notice and attempt to scout for the cloaked Kubel, so OKW player still needs to enact some defense and not lock down stuff with their cheapest vehicle and assume a GG.

The result is that Kubels remain a strategically viable unit throughout a match- want to ensure that VP sector is sector but cannot afford men? Keep a Kubel there to hold them off.




These are both very good replies, very constructive! Let's keep the dialogue moving!
3 May 2016, 06:07 AM
#26
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2016, 01:02 AMSierra

Except getting a Vet-bonus isn't a guarantee, nor does it produce munitions or fuel.

Besides, Vet-5 can be categorized as "Faction Flavor" same as how USF still have that obscene tank exploit where they can just hop out of vehicles to reduce popcap, build more tanks, and then send a horde of tanks at 150/100 popcap.


Not having caches is also faction flavor. The faction is supposed to represent a battle-hardened German army in a state of low resources. They made it more playable by removing the crippling resource penalties and nerfing some of the large veterancy bonuses, but pretty much all of OKW units still scale better at vet 5 than allied/ostheer units at vet 3. There has to be some resource penalty still in place to compensate, and I think lack of economy boosting caches is a fair trade off.
3 May 2016, 06:37 AM
#27
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



Not having caches is also faction flavor. The faction is supposed to represent a battle-hardened German army in a state of low resources. They made it more playable by removing the crippling resource penalties and nerfing some of the large veterancy bonuses, but pretty much all of OKW units still scale better at vet 5 than allied/ostheer units at vet 3. There has to be some resource penalty still in place to compensate, and I think lack of economy boosting caches is a fair trade off.


The "flavor" existed at OKW's launch. Since then, rivers of tears flowed, and OKW looks now pretty much the same as all factions. Scarce resources, cool and powerful units. Much of this flavor was lost, but at the beginning the faction was so original and different from others. And it's not the only faction who suffered such "let's be all the same" changes. People simply did not suffer the idea of confronting more powerfull units (why is your stick bigger than mine, it's not fair...) even if they came from a poor economy and their number was so limited that losing one it usualy ment GG.

Obviously the community wants mirror factions, and COh2 is slowly going there. The brits are still an original design, as OKW was, but I wonder how much will they resist. They suffered some changes already, but the champion of changes is of course OKW. Compared to what it was at the beginning, it's almost unrecognisable.

By this logic, you can give caches, strategic bombers, etc, despite the fact late 44-45 germany had almost no airforce capabilities....
nee
3 May 2016, 10:41 AM
#28
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

To further develop my Kubel idea, at a certain veterancy level, the toggle to cloak is no longer relevant in making a capture point decap slower or permanently secure. Maybe vet2 or vet3? Dunno, hard enough to vet a Kubel, especially late-game, due to its light armour and trading the one good thing- speed- for the capability.

Another idea is that instead of a toggle, it can even just be a permanent passive ability- if you send in your Riflemen to cap a sector and notice the capture rate is slower, then that means that somewhere in that sector a Kubel is running around. After a certain veterancy level, it is not possible to decap/ capture a point due to the Kubel's presence.
This gives a strategic element to the defending OKW player because if you want to stop an enemy from taking a neutral point, a Kubel in the same sector prevents that or slows it down. On the other hand, this advantage can be easily lost if you risk the Kubel in combat since it's a fragile unit.
3 May 2016, 10:48 AM
#29
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post1 May 2016, 02:35 AMSierra
After much consideration, I've come to the conclusion that the OKW is in need of the ability to construct resource caches for fuel/munitions. For the purpose of securing cutoffs and territory as well as resource production.

Being the only faction out of five factions that cannot produce them, the other four being of course The Ostheer, USF, UKF, and Soviets, leaves the faction at a tactical and strategic disadvantage that can prove crippling to overall gameplay of that faction.


I am open to discussion on this matter however, and would appreciate reasonable debate over whether or not the OKW should be able to construct caches.

This post is like a time capsule made by Sierra, to commemorate his views from 1 year ago or more.
3 May 2016, 18:52 PM
#30
avatar of sinthe

Posts: 414

OKW doesn't need cahches.

BUT! A doctrine w/ Vampir Halftrack might be cool.
3 May 2016, 18:56 PM
#31
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

Actually scavange is much better than caches. It's true it gives less resources but it also costs nothing. It also boost your resources in 1v1, where nobody has enough mp for caches and in team games you get resources from all teammate caches plus your scavange... You simply win in every scenario with it.

If you need to cover the flanks from harrasment putting ober or JLI booby trap or some mines is a good idea.
3 May 2016, 19:17 PM
#32
avatar of DjDrowsyBear

Posts: 41

It bothers me how much the community wants to add things to a faction rather than fixing the things already implemented.

A good example of that is a thread which was posted about a month ago. It suggested that COH2 didn't need balance, it needed more commanders and units to balance everything out. That is just simply bad game design and a horrible idea. It is also that thought process which is increasingly making it difficult to tell factions apart (i.e. Wermacht/OKW).

The OKW have an understandable trade off between both scavenge and vet 5, they don't need to have resource caches on top of it. If it is really that necessary then fix the other (much more clear) problems with its units and then implement caches if it is still necessary afterwards.
3 May 2016, 21:13 PM
#33
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

More than getting resources, scavenge is good for denying support weapons.
5 May 2016, 07:35 AM
#34
avatar of squippy

Posts: 484

I generally agree with those who think OKW does not need and should not get caches; however I'm sympathetic to the argument that it should have some means of securing points. I thought the trucks did that (they say so), but if they ever did, they don't any more.

I'd prefer the building idea (lets just call it a bunker) over the kubel one. But frankly, if it was just a big concrete block, that provided nothing other than decap protection, I think it would be fine.
5 May 2016, 09:17 AM
#35
avatar of Hikuran

Posts: 194

OKW is also the only one with Vet 5 and has scavenge as default ability

I would consider it a fair trade
5 May 2016, 12:22 PM
#36
avatar of ofield

Posts: 420

Caches = no scavenge

and no vet5?
5 May 2016, 15:42 PM
#37
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

More than getting resources, scavenge is good for denying support weapons.


Exactly, I would not trade scavenge for caches as this ability creates strategic elements in the game.
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