With new penals maxim isn't really needed at all.
Con or two, 2 penals, 1 elite squad of choice or 1 maxim, some light armor for support and that is all you need now.
Feels like a sin not to get T1 and penals now and soviets definitely don't need to rely on doctrines or maxims for AI power.
20 mp difference between Mg42 and Maxim.
25 Apr 2016, 21:44 PM
#21
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
25 Apr 2016, 21:45 PM
#22
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Feels like a sin not to get T1 and penals now and soviets definitely don't need to rely on doctrines or maxims for AI power.
Just readin that makes me feel like I could cry right now
25 Apr 2016, 21:49 PM
#23
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Just readin that makes me feel like I could cry right now
Not sure if these would be tears of hope and joy or terror, but penals are damn amazing now.
They will be called OP by many, that is for sure, but no wonder since they were trash tier since first vet revamp, they are hardly op though, they pack a punch, but can't take it.
It'll be fun to play with them now so over reliance on maxims is no longer an issue now that there is another unit that can fight.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
25 Apr 2016, 21:51 PM
#24
Posts: 49
Haha no more maxim spam!
Btw the deathloop is a bug and not used as a balance topic.
Btw the deathloop is a bug and not used as a balance topic.
25 Apr 2016, 22:19 PM
#25
Posts: 199
Death loop happens when you fail to retreat your maximums at a proper time.
Then they should give it to all faction MG's and call it a feature.
25 Apr 2016, 22:27 PM
#26
Posts: 2742
With new penals maxim isn't really needed at all.
Con or two, 2 penals, 1 elite squad of choice or 1 maxim, some light armor for support and that is all you need now.
Feels like a sin not to get T1 and penals now and soviets definitely don't need to rely on doctrines or maxims for AI power.
Units from T0, T1, T2, and T3. Or if no maxim, doctrine reliance and a lack of ZiS.
'All you need' is pretty much everything Soviets have before T4. As strong as Penals might be, they are significant manpower investment that doesn't scale even into the midgame. They're kind of like investing in Assault Grens as Ostheer. They might be able to win the first few engagements, but they fall to the wayside pretty quickly since they lack durability and a form of AT. At all points afterward they need to be supported by a conscript squad at the very least.
But reliance on maxim spam wasn't exactly a bed of roses either.
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25 Apr 2016, 22:44 PM
#27
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Not sure if these would be tears of hope and joy or terror, but penals are damn amazing now.
Former.
It's been three years!
26 Apr 2016, 07:57 AM
#28
Posts: 673
No more Maxim spam for you. Use it like a low setup time support weapon rather than the only weapon of USSR.
Lol, before we will use it "like a low setup time support" it should become into support gun. Wider arc of fire, better AoE supression for crowd control. Make it real - people will use it as support gun. If it will save desgin of "offencive" HMG - people will use it as offencive HMG.
26 Apr 2016, 09:24 AM
#29
Posts: 493
The only thing I liked in maxims over MG42 - it was once ago - that attack-move ends with setting it up, and attack-move of MG ends with unit stops in packed state. Now with deathloops and omg ultra super performance require nerfing... well... it is pudding more then ever.
mastered mode: 4v3 
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
26 Apr 2016, 09:52 AM
#30
Posts: 571
Lol, before we will use it "like a low setup time support" it should become into support gun. Wider arc of fire, better AoE supression for crowd control. Make it real - people will use it as support gun. If it will save desgin of "offencive" HMG - people will use it as offencive HMG.
Better AOE suppression needs to go to every single HMG and the flak halftrack :/
26 Apr 2016, 09:57 AM
#31
Posts: 673
Better AOE suppression needs to go to every single HMG and the flak halftrack :/
And what about wide arc of fire? It's more important for to make real deffensive support-HMG. Larger setup time - larger arc.
26 Apr 2016, 10:08 AM
#32
Posts: 1355
The deathloop cost me so many maxims/games. Relic, please fix this.
26 Apr 2016, 11:05 AM
#33
Posts: 571
And what about wide arc of fire? It's more important for to make real deffensive support-HMG. Larger setup time - larger arc.
They really should just add the SGM on tripod and be done with it.
And it makes sense too.
OKW have 2 forms of suppression - MG-34 and Flak halftrack
USF have 2 forms of suppression - 50cal and Flak halftrack
Ost have 2 forms of suppression, but 1 is late (Pwefer) and 1 is par excellent - Pwerfer/ MG-42
UKF have 2 forms of suppression - Bofors and Vickers
USSR have 3 forms of suppression currently - Maxim, DshK and MG halftrack, though SGM would be nice to have in a doctrine/ replace maxim/ whatever?
26 Apr 2016, 12:32 PM
#34
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
They really should just add the SGM on tripod and be done with it.
And it makes sense too.
OKW have 2 forms of suppression - MG-34 and Flak halftrack
USF have 2 forms of suppression - 50cal and Flak halftrack
Ost have 2 forms of suppression, but 1 is late (Pwefer) and 1 is par excellent - Pwerfer/ MG-42
UKF have 2 forms of suppression - Bofors and Vickers
USSR have 3 forms of suppression currently - Maxim, DshK and MG halftrack, though SGM would be nice to have in a doctrine/ replace maxim/ whatever?
If you're counting DShKa, then count MG-42 for OKW and M5/M17 AA halftrack for USF.
26 Apr 2016, 12:41 PM
#35
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
Death loop is not a bug (though it SHOULD be removed), it's the same concept as AT gun crew because it's wheeled, not on a tripod,which means it cannot teleport to another squadmember for some reason. IMO there are more egregious animation errors already in the game so there is no reason to keep it.
And survivability of unit (AKA chance of it to be decrewed and captured) should ABSOLUTELY be a part of balance discussion of said unit and how it compares to its counterparts.
And survivability of unit (AKA chance of it to be decrewed and captured) should ABSOLUTELY be a part of balance discussion of said unit and how it compares to its counterparts.
26 Apr 2016, 12:41 PM
#36
Posts: 571
If you're counting DShKa, then count MG-42 for OKW and M5/M17 AA halftrack for USF.
Forgot about them
26 Apr 2016, 13:15 PM
#37
4 Posts: 444
With new penals maxim isn't really needed at all.
Con or two, 2 penals, 1 elite squad of choice or 1 maxim, some light armor for support and that is all you need now.
Feels like a sin not to get T1 and penals now and soviets definitely don't need to rely on doctrines or maxims for AI power.
Can't wait to skip cons and spam guards and penals
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26 Apr 2016, 13:24 PM
#38
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Can't wait to skip cons and spam guards and penals
You still need cons for AT nades and early capping since penals arrive later on the field now
But penals for AI and PTRS cons for AT do actually work. If only PTRS was 2CP upgrade so it appears when its actually useful
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Apr 2016, 13:42 PM
#39
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
You still need cons for AT nades and early capping since penals arrive later on the field now
But penals for AI and PTRS cons for AT do actually work. If only PTRS was 2CP upgrade so it appears when its actually useful
This annoys me so much. Why guards with PTRS by default come out earlier?
26 Apr 2016, 13:44 PM
#40
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
This annoys me so much. Why guards with PTRS by default come out earlier?
Because it makes all the sense in the world for inferior weapon to arrive later you silly!
Just look at PPSH vs shocks, PTRS vs guards, G43 vs LMG42 OH WAIT! LELIC actually did the right thing on the last one!
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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