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PanzerJaegers - A few questions.

25 Apr 2016, 01:51 AM
#21
avatar of Vuther
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:43 AMhubewa


Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the range of the Raketen is 50 whereas ZIS is 60, or I'm running off old stats.

No, that's true. Raketen's range is 50. The penetration values to determine whether they will damage a vehicle they hit however, are exactly the same, 180/190/200. So Raketen will have 180 penetration at range 50, 190 penetration at range 25 and 200 next to them, while ZiS-3 will have 180 at range 60, 183.33 at range 50, 190 at range 30, 191.66 at range 25, and 200 next to them.
25 Apr 2016, 02:45 AM
#22
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

I think Raketen's main issue wasn't so much Pennetration as it was range, which made it a lot weaker against light vehicles. Pschrecks were used to compensate for this to an extent.
25 Apr 2016, 05:07 AM
#23
avatar of Kermitjames

Posts: 34

I say give the raketen the benefit of light cover or buff its range a wee bit. That just might help it where it needs it.
25 Apr 2016, 05:28 AM
#24
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

I say give the raketen the benefit of light cover or buff its range a wee bit. That just might help it where it needs it.


This, pretty much I would actually be fine with the current balance OKW if range of raketen was buffed to 60, even if ROF was nerfed as a result.
25 Apr 2016, 05:40 AM
#25
avatar of robertmikael
Donator 11

Posts: 311

I would add Panzerjägers to OKW. I would make them expensive, 5 man unit, ability to get 2 Schrecks and have camouflage, so that they can hide and conceal themselves as they actually did in WW2 in the end of the war.

If the unit is expensive, then it would not be spammed like the Volks. I think the problem with the Volks is that they can easily be spammed as the unit in itself is cheap and can easily get a high veterancy level.

Don't remove Panzerschrecks from OKW. Just make it work better.
25 Apr 2016, 06:22 AM
#26
avatar of Vuther
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Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

I say give the raketen the benefit of light cover or buff its range a wee bit. That just might help it where it needs it.

Agreed, the other AT guns (are supposed to) have heavy cover to compensate for their inability to retreat - well, Raketens can retreat but they can also be suppressed and have 10 less range, so I think it would be fair for them to be a bit hardier against bullets than they are now.
25 Apr 2016, 07:19 AM
#27
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 06:22 AMVuther

Agreed, the other AT guns (are supposed to) have heavy cover to compensate for their inability to retreat - well, Raketens can retreat but they can also be suppressed and have 10 less range, so I think it would be fair for them to be a bit hardier against bullets than they are now.


They need better squad spacing.

Having 4 persons wiped by a single shot crom a Cromwell is silly.
25 Apr 2016, 08:19 AM
#28
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 06:22 AMVuther

Agreed, the other AT guns (are supposed to) have heavy cover to compensate for their inability to retreat - well, Raketens can retreat but they can also be suppressed and have 10 less range, so I think it would be fair for them to be a bit hardier against bullets than they are now.


ATM, the problem with the 50 range Raketen isn't so much it being hardier vs bullets as it is its relative inability to deal with light vehicles due to its low range, which withouth schrecks on volks will amplify that inability.

It will almost definitely shoehorn OKW into T1 -> Puma strategy even with Raketens.
nee
25 Apr 2016, 11:23 AM
#29
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

I like the idea, but I would prefer the Panzerjaeger idea be a Volks upgrade in place of Panzerschreck. You still get volks having the AT role, but said AT role is heavily nerfed.

I don't know if that would just encourage volksblob even more though, not unless the damage is so pitiful that you're more likely being AI rather that intended AT (like Guards).

Personally I rather Panzerschreck upgrade be something like needing two HQ trucks deployed. Or even just nerf the damage.
25 Apr 2016, 14:04 PM
#30
avatar of tigerhunter

Posts: 20

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 11:23 AMnee
I like the idea, but I would prefer the Panzerjaeger idea be a Volks upgrade in place of Panzerschreck. You still get volks having the AT role, but said AT role is heavily nerfed.

I don't know if that would just encourage volksblob even more though, not unless the damage is so pitiful that you're more likely being AI rather that intended AT (like Guards).

Personally I rather
Panzerschreck upgrade be something like needing two HQ trucks deployed. Or even just nerf the damage.


This is great idea. otherwise i want to move all half truck units to med truck making sense. And giving them mp40 like as captain seems fine to me.
25 Apr 2016, 19:55 PM
#31
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 01:16 AMhubewa


Except Sovs have an AT gun that can actually penn something and has range.

Plus a plethora of AT vehicles that can scale well into the game, unlike OKW.


Your at gun does not have to pen panthers tho does it? No it just has to pen weaker allied armor.
25 Apr 2016, 19:58 PM
#32
avatar of skyshark

Posts: 239

i like this idea. elegant and makes the BG HQ more useful.
25 Apr 2016, 20:00 PM
#33
avatar of Kermitjames

Posts: 34

It's power against vehicles is fine but it's survivability is a concern. Whats the use of a At gun that cant touch it target before getting blown to smithereens? The benefit of building cover is not always available and unlike other at guns it does not benefit from natural cover of any kind.
25 Apr 2016, 20:09 PM
#34
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 556

It's power against vehicles is fine but it's survivability is a concern. Whats the use of a At gun that cant touch it target before getting blown to smithereens? The benefit of building cover is not always available and unlike other at guns it does not benefit from natural cover of any kind.


Ill be honest with you guys, lot of these ideas are good about the raken, i like a idea on another thread about giving at least light cover, but really this is a none issue. The raken isnt suppose to be by its self when engageing enemy armor, you should be screening it with faust armed volks.
25 Apr 2016, 20:41 PM
#35
avatar of Kermitjames

Posts: 34

Another question how much manpower and pop does the raketen take up compared to the other at guns? Anybody have any specific stats to show me please?
25 Apr 2016, 21:00 PM
#36
avatar of SlaYoU

Posts: 400

Another question how much manpower and pop does the raketen take up compared to the other at guns? Anybody have any specific stats to show me please?


270 / 7
25 Apr 2016, 21:05 PM
#37
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Another question how much manpower and pop does the raketen take up compared to the other at guns? Anybody have any specific stats to show me please?

USF 57mm 270 MP 7 pop.

OKW Raketen 270 MP 7 pop.

Wehr Pak40 320 MP 9 pop.

UKF 6 Pounder 320 MP 7 pop.

SU ZiS-3 320 MP 9 pop.

Speaking of which, goddammit WHY does the 6 Pounder cost 2 less pop than comparable ATGs? :rolleyes:
25 Apr 2016, 21:15 PM
#38
avatar of Kermitjames

Posts: 34

Hmmmmm I would have thought the raketen would have been cheaper. interesting

Thanks Vuther
25 Apr 2016, 21:21 PM
#39
avatar of elchino7
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Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 00:26 AMTobis
It's a good idea, but I have no faith in Relic adding a new squad for free. They are experimenting with the USF mortar, but that is already in the game in Ardennes Assault. Too much work for it I fear.


Why not just make them Volks 2.0 and just change model/stat/name?

Regarding AT guns, i'll add that they have different crew size/received accuracy.

For example:
http://stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=m1_57mm_at_gun_squad_mp
http://stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=raketenwerfer43_88mm_puppchen_antitank_gun_squad_mp

USF AT gun crew is set at 1.25, while rak is at 0.85. Rest IIRC are set at 1.
25 Apr 2016, 21:22 PM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2016, 21:05 PMVuther

USF 57mm 270 MP 7 pop.

OKW Raketen 270 MP 7 pop.

Wehr Pak40 320 MP 9 pop.

UKF 6 Pounder 320 MP 7 pop.

SU ZiS-3 320 MP 9 pop.

Speaking of which, goddammit WHY does the 6 Pounder cost 2 less pop than comparable ATGs? :rolleyes:


I'd say why PaK and ZiS cost 9... 2 of them make for 1/5 of your army.
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