Do volks really need stg44?

...

So in general you pretty much saying "Something cost more, then it should beat cheaper unit".

Why then vetted Grens with LMG can somehow stay vs rifles
Why upgraded tommies can stand against Obersts
Why vet 3 cons in competitive mod can beat vet 4 volks with STG ?
This list could be further and futher.

Like really, this is really dumb logic saying that "Its cheaper it should lost".

Volks with StG suck with vet 0 and vet 5 no matter what really. There is litterally almost no reason to build them aside from faust spamming, but I think it would be better to just have 2x pios into mine spam.

Correct volks simply cant stand against other inf, suffering from the same soviet consripts problem, but the main difference is that soviets at least can get support weapons for their cons right of the bat, to hold the ground while Volks cant.

Also I see no reason saying that "depr volks are cheaper", because you hardly will overhelm 2 to 1 in any situation against soviets or USF, you can only overhelm brits. So usually it will be 2vs2 fights, where volks pretty much shooting popcorn instead of bullets.

They shouldn't just have StG for "improving their AI", which wont be totaly shitty, but would be just shitty with StG. If they need improved AI, then it should be feelable improvements, not just ability to kill 2 models instead of 1 and then lose again.

Obi, you're making an arse of yourself. Go sit down and breath deeply.

Just a short question, especially for miragefla:

Why did you feel the need to outright remove shrecks ? I know that nerfing the shrecks is not an option ( having different versions of them in game is bad design). Thing is, the grenade nerf is a major nerf to all blobs including volks blobs. They were never the ultimate anti infantry tool (with bars on rifleman your could tear them up quickly). Yes, they were overperforming slightly, but IMO a nerf to the amount of veterancy they get with damaging vehicles might have been enough. So is there really no option that doesn't fuck with the balance that much

had to perform lebensraum on the thread...


please.... stop.... quoting troll posts. just report it...thats enough. and move on...

So in general you pretty much saying "Something cost more, then it should beat cheaper unit".

scrub pls

Why then vetted Grens with LMG can somehow stay vs rifles

Because muni upgrades add to units cost, making it stand up to more expensive one, just like ppsh cons can stand up to other inf to a point, just like grens can stand up to rifles, just like stg volks can stand up to rifles.

Why upgraded tommies can stand against Obersts

Again, because upgrades can make so.

Why vet 3 cons in competitive mod can beat vet 4 volks with STG ?

They can't unless they get lucky checked that many times.

Like really, this is really dumb logic saying that "Its cheaper it should lost".

Volks with StG suck with vet 0 and vet 5 no matter what really. There is litterally almost no reason to build them aside from faust spamming, but I think it would be better to just have 2x pios into mine spam.

This isn't dumb logic, but actual in game situation.
In fact, if there are 2 units of same role and one is more expensive then other, then more expensive one will end up on top.

Source:
Every single RTS game ever made.

There is also literally no reason to build cons except for AT nades.
Hell, if you think its better to get 2 spios and spam mines, by the RNJesus do so! You are no longer bound and condemned to spam volks!

Correct volks simply cant stand against other inf, suffering from the same soviet consripts problem, but the main difference is that soviets at least can get support weapons for their cons right of the bat, to hold the ground while Volks cant.

Vanila volks beat vanila cons.
Upgraded volks stand up to rifles at any range and will roflstomp tommies at med and short ranges.
And no, volks don't suffer from same issues as cons and won't as long as they will have stock weapon upgrade. And in case you haven't noticed, MG34 becomes stock and you have strongest engineer squad at the beginning of the game for your support.

You're exaggerating, but that is understandable from 4v4 one army only hero.

Also I see no reason saying that "depr volks are cheaper", because you hardly will overhelm 2 to 1 in any situation against soviets or USF, you can only overhelm brits. So usually it will be 2vs2 fights, where volks pretty much shooting popcorn instead of bullets.

Have you considered NOT spamming volks and actually using other options?
It might prove extremely helpful after next patch.
You're extremely close minded on new possible BOs, thats why you're so fixated on volks, who will be anything but weak post patch.

They shouldn't just have StG for "improving their AI", which wont be totaly shitty, but would be just shitty with StG. If they need improved AI, then it should be feelable improvements, not just ability to kill 2 models instead of 1 and then lose again.

You have 6 dedicated AI units both stock and doctrinal.
Why you're so fixated on volks is beyond my comprehension.

Let me spell it out for you again:

VOLKS ARE NOT MEANT TO STAND UP TO ALL ALLIED INFANTRY BECAUSE OKW HAVE SHITLOAD OF AI SPECIALIST INFANTRY, USE IT, ADAPT OR EXTINCT.

VOLKS ARE NOT MEANT TO STAND UP TO ALL ALLIED INFANTRY BECAUSE OKW HAVE SHITLOAD OF AI SPECIALIST INFANTRY, USE IT, ADAPT OR EXTINCT.

That come either to late or are doctrine bound and you have AT BEST have 2-3 worthless squads or 4-5 worthless squads depending how you build. Thats why vg's need stg44's with the pg profile perhaps adding a third one for 90 ammo and their vet 3 needs to be increased to 20 %.

At the moment the vg's use a stg44 that's half the dps of the pg stg44. its neary downgrade then a upgrade.

I tested the mod alrdy and theres no reason to be afraid. Volks are fine with the stg and its so much funnier to play with them than with schreck blobs

Alright, please explain to me how you are not losing every single game then when volks atm are even weaker AI-wise, you don't have HMG in T0 and are equally AI dependent on doctrines or obers?

From your descriptions it won't be possible to play OKW with AI volks, makes me wonder how is it even possible for you to do it right now when they are even weaker in AI.

Because muni upgrades add to units cost, making it stand up to more expensive one, just like ppsh cons can stand up to other inf to a point, just like grens can stand up to rifles, just like stg volks can stand up to rifles.
Again, because upgrades can make so.

Except Volks still have problems against same rifles on both mid\close range with StG. Unlike all other upgraded inf, which can beat even more expensive one using range and cover and abilities.

This isn't dumb logic, but actual in game situation.
In fact, if there are 2 units of same role and one is more expensive then other, then more expensive one will end up on top.

Except its not starcraft, there you can have more expensive unit being beated by cheaper one, using cover\range advanatge. While in most of the cases volks wont stand against Allied inf. Ofcouse if soviet\USF player wont stay in red cover against green cover volks.

Vanila volks beat vanila cons.
Upgraded volks stand up to rifles at any range and will roflstomp tommies at med and short ranges.
And no, volks don't suffer from same issues as cons and won't as long as they will have stock weapon upgrade. And in case you haven't noticed, MG34 becomes stock and you have strongest engineer squad at the beginning of the game for your support.

Yeah, sure, I tested it aswell. Yes in "tests" volks will stand up against static rifles thats true. But it actial game with more then 1 unit, timing and so they wont m8.

Also by the time you get your MG34 and StG, British player would already have Sappers to deal with your StG volks and maybe AEC a bit later, to help agains your lovely MG34. And you wont get your Puma, because you really want to rush T1, since if you rush T2, you will base losed very soon, ofcouse if you didnt pick Luft or def doc.

And Brits\soviets\USF have all the tools to deal with your lovely SPs, so dont act like they are something perfect. Focus fire still forcing then to retrat like always.

You're exaggerating, but that is understandable from 4v4 one army only hero.

I wonder if I should give you my player card, to destoy your wet dreams that i'm 4v4 player. But it would be an overkill for the guy who have barrely 200 games played and no ranks what so ever

Have you considered NOT spamming volks and actually using other options?
It might prove extremely helpful after next patch.
You're extremely close minded on new possible BOs, thats why you're so fixated on volks, who will be anything but weak post patch.

I never told I want to spam volks, stop seeing what you want to see. All I wont for volks - to have role, OKW is not that faction where you need your expensive meatshiel. Ost+osttroppen maybe. I would rather see cheap shitty volks, which meant to overhelm enemy, rather then 250 MP meatshield with meatshield upgradable weapon, which still dont give them any kind of real firepower.

You have 6 dedicated AI units both stock and doctrinal.
Why you're so fixated on volks is beyond my comprehension.

Except Obersts hit the field at least at 8-9 minute mark, Jaegers are still RNG unit, Fallshims are good, but again cost amost like 2 Rifle squads and vinerable to insta wipes.
Panzerfusilies are good, but if its ok for you that only this doc will allow you to hold the graund then mkay m8.

VOLKS ARE NOT MEANT TO STAND UP TO ALL ALLIED INFANTRY BECAUSE OKW HAVE SHITLOAD OF AI SPECIALIST INFANTRY, USE IT, ADAPT OR EXTINCT.

Except they cant stand up against anything in actual game.

Alright, please explain to me how you are not losing every single game then when volks atm are even weaker AI-wise, you don't have HMG in T0 and are equally AI dependent on doctrines or obers?

From your descriptions it won't be possible to play OKW with AI volks, makes me wonder how is it even possible for you to do it right now when they are even weaker in AI.

Dinno, maybe because OKW already forced to pick def or luft dont like in 99% 1v1 games? And maybe because you can allow yoursefl to skip raketen and have +1 SP or Volk or even call-in inf.

Alright, please explain to me how you are not losing every single game then when volks atm are even weaker AI-wise, you don't have HMG in T0 and are equally AI dependent on doctrines or obers?

From your descriptions it won't be possible to play OKW with AI volks, makes me wonder how is it even possible for you to do it right now when they are even weaker in AI.

Bloody hell. Currently volks are a good supportive AT. that means i dont have to invest into more AT when late game comes. so extra fuel end mp can be invested into obers and luchs to deal with the vastly superior allied main infantry.

Now im going to be stuck with vg's that cant do shit against allied infantry ( you said it yourself )
that means i have to invest even more in AI leaving me likely with no resources whatsoever to deal allied tanks. if i invest into AT i will get butchered by the superior allied infantry.

Damned if you damned if you dont

Its not fucking rocket science and thats why im pushing for buffs for the current vg's to stand up to the allied main infantry.