Universal Carrier

With the removal of the fuel cost, this has now become an incredibly cost effective unit. Particularly against OKW who have to buy a raketenwerfer to even hope of dealing with it, and there's a good chance it will miss its alpha strike volley due to the UC's size.

It's the problem the Imperial Guard Sentinel had in Dawn of War 2. It can bleed manpower without bleeding itself. For 210 mp it's an absolute steal, especially since it can become a command vehicle later on.

It really should have the 15 fuel cost back and slow down brits teching somewhat. How the fuck did we end up in this situation where the UC is the best armoured transport vehicle, highest damage output and yet the cheapest? M3A1 and Dodge are both more expensive yet don't do nearly as much anti infantry damage.


The kubelwagon similarly should have the 5 fuel cost back.

Being able to bleed manpower without any sort of tech cost is bad for the game. Especially when Brits already have very little mainline teching. (With most of their tech being optional stuff)

With the removal of the fuel cost, this has now become an incredibly cost effective unit. Particularly against OKW who have to buy a raketenwerfer to even hope of dealing with it, and there's a good chance it will miss its alpha strike volley due to the UC's size.

It's the problem the Imperial Guard Sentinel had in Dawn of War 2. It can bleed manpower without bleeding itself. For 210 mp it's an absolute steal, especially since it can become a command vehicle later on.

It really should have the 15 fuel cost back and slow down brits teching somewhat. How the fuck did we end up in this situation where the UC is the best armoured transport vehicle, highest damage output and yet the cheapest? M3A1 and Dodge are both more expensive yet don't do nearly as much anti infantry damage.


The kubelwagon similarly should have the 5 fuel cost back.

Being able to bleed manpower without any sort of tech cost is bad for the game. Especially when Brits already have very little mainline teching. (With most of their tech being optional stuff)

Armored car is looking at you

Armored car is looking at you

The 222 is too cheap as well, honestly. It's old price was designed around having to spend 70 munitions for the up gun. Atleast it has a fuel cost though.

Being able to bleed manpower without any sort of tech cost is bad for the game. Especially when Brits already have very little mainline teching. (With most of their tech being optional stuff)

I completely agree with that statement. Also note that an early vehicle is also able to push units and make your units unable to fight. Thus, I also agree that all units should have some (even if token) Fuel cost attached to them.

Now, there are a few questions left to answer:

How the hell did we get to this point?

In the current meta, the new alpha male of early-light vehicles is the 222 (or its cousin, the 666). According to Relic logic for the previous patch, the 222 is worth 210 MP, 15 Fuel (or something like that).

Since the 222 can chase and consume unaware UCs with impunity (which may also be upgraded with expensive flamethrowers), the UC had to be made cheaper.

Now, why wasn't the same treatment afforded to M3A1 and Dodge? It's simple:
- USF Dodge is out-of-meta on a forgotten doctrine. Why stir up bad memories.
- M3A1 is in Soviet T1.

The UC is a bit.. special
- It requires the UKF player to tech in order to repair (Fuel delays teching -> no repairs -> no UC)
- The other option is to reach Vet1, which is unachievable before you get your first sappers out anyway
- Either UC upgrade are very costly already. Adding a fuel cost to the UC would deny anti-garrison capabilities even further.
- Yes, it's a travesty that the DPS of the default MG is superior to the MG that you have to purchase for 60 MU for the upgrade.

How does UC compare as a transport to Dodge/M3A1
- The UC has very poor mobility
- M3A1 has plain better MGs
- Garrisoned units can fire out of Dodge/M3A1. You can't do this when using the UC.

I would argue for bringing back the fuel tag, increasing its stock durability a bit and upping it further when the flamer or Kgun are added.

Geez, of all the things to complain about...

Faust often 1 shots it, a single shreck means 210 manpower wasted, it has no middle or late game use and there is no way to repair it. In 500 hours with the Brits using UCs despite their weaknesses I've managed to get 2 to Vet 1.

If it is such an overpowered unit then feel free to look on the British strat forum and join my Universal Carrier challenge. Apparently, according to your post, you only have to avoid a Rak and they are invulnerable... Good luck.

You would have to kill 9 Volks or 7 Sturms to get your money's worth out of a UC. Hint, this very rarely happens.

UC can't be repaired until you buy special unit for that. Vet 1 is unachievable that early besides you will kill 3 squads and kubel. Keep that in mind.

UC is only unit that allows ukf to survive early game. Ostheer sniper and okw early rush is dangerous things. If it will cost 15 fuel than it should perform like 15 fuel, ability to capture points should be added.

Geez, of all the things to complain about...

Faust often 1 shots it, a single shreck means 210 manpower wasted, it has no middle or late game use and there is no way to repair it. In 500 hours with the Brits using UCs despite their weaknesses I've managed to get 2 to Vet 1.

If it is such an overpowered unit then feel free to look on the British strat forum and join my Universal Carrier challenge. Apparently, according to your post, you only have to avoid a Rak and they are invulnerable... Good luck.

You would have to kill 9 Volks or 7 Sturms to get your money's worth out of a UC. Hint, this very rarely happens.

It takes 2 faust.


Mid/late game use can be as command vehicle or simply support for weapons teams. (Suppressive fire stops flanks like nobodies business)


It's not just about paying for itself in raw bleed. It pushes your opponent off the map in the early stages of the game.

I've never managed to push OKW or Ost off the map with UCs. Trust me I've tried.

Frankly the UC's only use outside of the first few minutes is sat in base as a command vehicle.

2 Fausts definitely kills it, 1 often does the job due to criticals. I've lost lots of UCs to single shots.

I'd much prefer a more expensive UC which could actually do something useful. If that is 15 fuel then it should perform.

There are many ways in which it could however it's ahistorical Vickers K, inability to garrison troops firing, Vickers in particular, relatively large target size compared to real life size and unrealistic vet requirements are all things which should be looked it.

In particular it should have some role in the middle and late game as all tier 1 units should.

this is not DoW2

UC is finally decent, not OP or UP anymore. Try upgrading shreks it blows up to two of them.

15 fuel UC would be extremely useless. It does not have a lot of armor and usually it is in critical condition by the time your first Engies arrive on the field. If you give it fuel cost, it's niche-timing window would be so small that you would miss it if you blinked.

15 fuel UC would be extremely useless. It does not have a lot of armor and usually it is in critical condition by the time your first Engies arrive on the field. If you give it fuel cost, it's niche-timing window would be so small that you would miss it if you blinked.

This.
Plus no way in hell am I going to agree on 5 fuel for Kubel.
If you're going to do that, then return my supression back.

15 fuel UC would be extremely useless. It does not have a lot of armor and usually it is in critical condition by the time your first Engies arrive on the field. If you give it fuel cost, it's niche-timing window would be so small that you would miss it if you blinked.

The timing window doesn't change. You'd still be able to build it right from the start of the game, and it'd still be just as effective as it would now.

What would change?

Well, you'd have to actually capture territory instead of teching to t2 for free even if you don't capture any resources. As it is now, you can build a UC, a vickers and even a third squad after that and still tech at 2 minutes with ZERO resources captured.

This lets you be very, very aggressive in the early game and focus more on bleeding your opponent and forcing his squads to retreat without any punishment. (You'll still get t2 in time with plenty of time to get AT etc.)


It wouldn't be any more useless than 15 fuel M3A1 or 20 fuel WC51. It's a far more capable unit than either of those.

The UC sucks donkey balls compared to the M3A1 and even the WC51; the latter you can actually recall and refit the moment when its timing window closes out 4 minutes into the game.

You seem to have neglected the awful speed and maneuverability on the UC. It's absolutely terrible at chasing units due to this, especially when coupled with its cone of fire.

Likewise it is worth noting that both axis factions have some form of anti vehicle from the start. The raketen is an extremely effective counter and the faust can punish any slip up in micro.

If the UC is too cost effective, wtf is the kubel?

If the UC is too cost effective, wtf is the kubel?

The kubel is a heavy tank.

UC is actually fine

You seem to have neglected the awful speed and maneuverability on the UC. It's absolutely terrible at chasing units due to this, especially when coupled with its cone of fire.

Likewise it is worth noting that both axis factions have some form of anti vehicle from the start. The raketen is an extremely effective counter and the faust can punish any slip up in micro.

As long as you drive with the gun pointing the right way it's fine for chasing units quite a ways. It won't outrun them but it can usually finish them off.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, I'm saying that not having any impact on tech speed goes against the design principles of the game. All vehicles should have some sort of fuel cost, and the reason they have this is because they don't bleed manpower. The UC was fine before when it had a fuel cost.

If the UC is too cost effective, wtf is the kubel?

Kubel has design issues too (as does all of OKW right now), but it's less resistant to small arms. Not sure how the damage compares though. I would assume UC is better in this regard just based on experience but kubel isn't bad either.

If the UC is too cost effective, wtf is the kubel?

Not so cost effective

UC is actually fine

+1

All vehicles should have some sort of fuel cost, and the reason they have this is because they don't bleed manpower. The UC was fine before when it had a fuel cost.
Kubel has design issues too.
I would assume UC is better in this regard just based on experience but kubel isn't bad either.

If you're going to add fuel to tanks, give my Kubel the same armour as the UC.
If both Axis factions didnt have AT at start, its GG just by rushing UC.
1 UC can stand up to 3 Kubels, and then some.

No, actually Kubel is working fine now.
UC IS better at survivability/upgrades/overall. It lacks speed, but like life everything is a tradeoff