Panzer II is built way too fast

What is this side teching you speak of?

For example: Buying Truck -> Building Med Truck -> spending amount of munitions -> Volks can buy flamnade upgrade for x amount of munitions.

For example: Buying Truck -> Building Med Truck -> spending amount of munitions -> Volks can buy flamnade upgrade for x amount of munitions.

And how does this impact the Luchs?

What is this side teching you speak of?

Side teching means spending manpower and fuel to unlock a unit or ability while your main tech is slowed down because you spent fuel. Allied grenades or USF/UKF weapon racks are an example, Bofors/AEC is another one. It was discussed here in the forums to make side techs for incendiary grenades / shreks or flak upgrade for last truck.

And how does this impact the Luchs?

If you have to pay fuel for unlocking incendiary grenades or for shreks you either delay the Luchs or you run a high risk to loose the early game.

If you have to pay fuel for unlocking incendiary grenades or for shreks you either delay the Luchs or you run a high risk to loose the early game.

Yeah, I understood it better after your original post. Without these tech speed bumps OKW seem to be a bit too flexible atm, and I'm saying this as an OKW player.

I personally feel fast Panzer II is much more of a problem for brits. It really forces you to go for an AEC, if you haven't it when the Panzer II shows up you are pretty fucked. One 6pdr as the most expensive AT-Gun is easily circled while british infantry do not have a non-doctrinal snare and you will never hit a fast moving luchs with piats unless your opponent fails with vehicle movement.

Why are you complaining about counters when the AEC is the counter yet you refuse to use?
Btw using the luchs is extremely risky. the t-70 stuart and aec makes short work of it . Even if it doesnt get killed you have an unit that creates no impact and you are still stuck with vg's. Its better to tech straight to the flak truck building and pump out obers and a p4. which gives the okw a much better midgame.

If you have to pay fuel for unlocking incendiary grenades or for shreks you either delay the Luchs or you run a high risk to loose the early game.

Not going to happen unless they buff the leigh and rakketten. The okw strength is brute force tactics on the front but terrible support in the rear.

Why are you complaining about counters when the AEC is the counter yet you refuse to use?
Btw using the luchs is extremely risky. the t-70 stuart and aec makes short work of it . Even if it doesnt get killed you have an unit that creates no impact and you are still stuck with vg's. Its better to tech straight to the flak truck building and pump out obers and a p4. which gives the okw a much better midgame.

Where did I said that I'm refusing to use it? I use it when playing brits actually. I only said I don't like to get forced to build the AEC because brits can't hold on with non/dotrinal AT snare + AT gun or bazooka like USF and Soviet can.
AEC delays Cromwell tech and excludes the possibility to build Bofors so it isn't such a bad choice as you said. T-70 comes later by a huge margin, but the T-70 is not the main problem Oorah + AT-grenade + ZIS is enough to kill it.

Not going to happen unless they buff the leigh and rakketten. The okw strength is brute force tactics on the front but terrible support in the rear.

LeiG is terrible? Lol, I use it quite often and its one of the best indirect firing units of the game. Especially versus brit emplacements it is the best unit. I experienced this as OKW and as brit player multiple times.
Raketen isn't terrible just not as good as LeiG. You should always have one around until you get the appropriate tanks. It is pretty cheap, can garrison, cloak and retreat while having a much better penetration than a 57mm AT-Gun and most allied tanks haven't that much armor. Its only real downside is its range but with cloak you can soften this drawback.

Where did I said that I'm refusing to use it? I use it when playing brits actually. I only said I don't like to get forced to build the AEC because brits can't hold on with non/dotrinal AT snare + AT gun or bazooka like USF and Soviet can.
AEC delays Cromwell tech and excludes the possibility to build Bofors so it isn't such a bad choice as you said. T-70 comes later by a huge margin, but the T-70 is not the main problem Oorah + AT-grenade + ZIS is enough to kill it.



LeiG is terrible? Lol, I use it quite often and its one of the best indirect firing units of the game. Especially versus brit emplacements it is the best unit. I experienced this as OKW and as brit player multiple times.
Raketen isn't terrible just not as good as LeiG. You should always have one around until you get the appropriate tanks. It is pretty cheap, can garrison, cloak and retreat while having a much better penetration than a 57mm AT-Gun and most allied tanks haven't that much armor. Its only real downside is its range but with cloak you can soften this drawback.

Don't forget raketen sneak at vet 1 they can move around cloaked and can be used as spotter for LeIG, OKW got pretty good support weapon, it's just that volk blob is generally more effective and easier to use, USF is the one faction that got truly sucky support weapons.

Don't forget raketen sneak at vet 1 they can move around cloaked and can be used as spotter for LeIG, OKW got pretty good support weapon, it's just that volk blob is generally more effective and easier to use, USF is the one faction that got truly sucky support weapons.

They may also have some capability to Predator cloak out of trouble if they're open and then activate it while in combat. With the speed penalty, they ain't phasing JPIVs or nothing, but it's something.

I really like ppl who say something like

"I want to go T1, I dont want to pick guards, I dont want to tech nades, I dont want to lay mines, Luchs hit the field way too early, nerf it plz".

I mean, if you play against OKW and you dont want to pick hard ... or at least some kind of counters, then dont play 1v1, play 2v2+ where your allie can support you.

I mean, countering OKW light armor play is insanly easy in 1v1 as all factions, aside from USF maybe.

I could tell you the same "I want to play brits, I dont want to go for AT guns or AEC, I would rather wait for my boforce, but luchs comes to early, before I can build one, nerf it plz"

Really, if you guys have some sort of non-meta super ESL strategy which will end enemy in a second no matter what, but fast luchs counters you, then hell, go to 2v2+. Dont play 1v1.

I would even say, that with all amount of possible counters by timing, luchs arrives way too late for its perfomance. Because its pretty much can be hard-countered right of the bat, and you will be left with unit which cant really be used aside from hunting back capping units. Thats why I usually face MLG IGs spam, coverd by Flak HQ, which is WAY more annoying and hard to deal with, then luchs.

Luchs doesn't come too too early. It has a small window of opportunity that slams shut once Su76,T70,stuart or AEC arrive.

The threat of the Luchs does limit your options as SU and Brits on some maps. In open maps without good spots for mines or AT nade ambushes it means a t1 start basically has to involve guards (which limits you to only one or two decent doctrines). Compare that to OKW,USF or Ostheer which have much easier access to non-doctrinal soft AT. Overall though it's fine.

Don't go t1. Seriously, everyone knows it's bad in 1v1. Until the soviet patch comes out don't bother with it unless you want to dual tech and get out a zis. Guards can also help if you go t1, but don't count on it. If you don't want zis go conspam and get at nades, wait for that sweet sweet t-70.

Partysans

That's not mystery at all. Even 222 cars can destroy Su-76s, just because SU has veeery low armor, specially in back. SU-76 is not medium tank at all - it is light tank with med-tank gun.

So, Luchs can destroy SU, there is nothing specific in that.

We are not discussing whether or not Luchs or 222 process the capability to destroy Su-76, we are discussing why there are players who would lose them to Luchs or 222. It would require a great more micros for German players to outmaneuver.

So the issue here is L2P

Okw is very retarded faction. Very retarded. Luchs timing is not the main issue. For okw Every unit type comes a lot faster/cheaper not only luchs.
Extremely noob frendly faction. Literaly no skill required.

Ive heard that wfa release was a mistake. Not sure about anything else but it seems the case with okw.

I disagree, mostly the timings are fine now to reach. Luch is perhaps a minute early, but I've seen enough 6 minute AEC's, which are way harder to deal with. Then after that you quickly will see Cronwells (Which litteraly comes in way too early!)

nice Iron Emperor, as we have dealt with fucking early AEC, now it is fine that we have to deal with early luch, great reasoning here man.


not saying OP is right, though...

nice Iron Emperor, as we have dealt with fucking early AEC, now it is fine that we have to deal with early luch, great reasoning here man.

Well the problem was with the AEC in the past that it was able to go blow to blow with the puma and still have more AI the then the t-70. it was kind of op as fuck.

Well the problem was with the AEC in the past that it was able to go blow to blow with the puma and still have more AI the then the t-70. it was kind of op as fuck.

I already know that. Thanks anyway.I suffered it, same as you.

I already know that. Thanks anyway.I suffered it, same as you.

But currently, Brit either rush AEC or go Bofor spam so it's not exactly unexpected, OKW can either go T1, get LeIG or go T2 and get Luchs/Puma/Stuka first all are viable options against UKF.

Side teching means spending manpower and fuel to unlock a unit or ability while your main tech is slowed down because you spent fuel. Allied grenades or USF/UKF weapon racks are an example, Bofors/AEC is another one. It was discussed here in the forums to make side techs for incendiary grenades / shreks or flak upgrade for last truck.

all the above and pay for there free healing they currently enjoy

Its a big problem no side tech equals brain dead decisions, make shrek mobs rush luchs make king tiger or anything really you can't seem to make a bad decision playing okw but every single unit is effective.