"Grenades are supposed to be a counter to support team anyway"
If UKF had equivalent grenades then it might be a fair counter. IS would need a very long throw range to plant one anywhere near an MG42 though.
OKWs support weapons are unlikely to be threatened by any grenades, ISG seems to be able to run away as fast as you can chase ( 4 dudes with Stens can't run faster than 4 dudes carrying a 400Kg team weapon?) and the rak can camo itself.
"Vickers is Hopeless For countering blobs" DISCUSS
25 Mar 2016, 14:45 PM
#21
Posts: 680
25 Mar 2016, 15:23 PM
#22
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
OKWs support weapons are unlikely to be threatened by any grenades, ISG seems to be able to run away as fast as you can chase ( 4 dudes with Stens can't run faster than 4 dudes carrying a 400Kg team weapon?)
They all do that. I imagine so any weapon team isn't automatically doomed because literally one infantry squad walked up to them.
25 Mar 2016, 15:39 PM
#23
Posts: 558 | Subs: 1
Vikers is bugged and suppression resets once a model is killed
more bugs? lel
25 Mar 2016, 17:21 PM
#24
1 
Posts: 1276
Any proof for this?
As a model dies the vickers has to re-aim meaning the closing the distance is fairly easy. The I don't have time to go into cheat mod but I know for a fact it has HUGE issues with killing models due to the aim time of the weapon.
Saying that nades are supposed to counter mgs is true but the fact that you unload a whole volley on a squad and they only get suppression at the very last round due to dying models is stupid. Reduce aim time on Vickers and it should be fine but currently due to its high damage and lack of similar suppression of MG42 means the 280Mp squad is worthless vs blobs of 2 or more units. Flame nades are a whole other issue but their long range with no wind up time means that OKW volks are able to push this mg even if supported due ot this bug. Brits already lack early map control vs OKW and should be addressed if possible.
Match aim time to MG42 and (possibly) reload to reduce inconsistencys with the weapon profile and concept.
25 Mar 2016, 17:31 PM
#25
Posts: 587
As a model dies the vickers has to re-aim meaning the closing the distance is fairly easy. The I don't have time to go into cheat mod but I know for a fact it has HUGE issues with killing models due to the aim time of the weapon.
All this is fine and dandy, but it's no proof for the bug that vickers suppresion "resets".
You talk about killing models and closing distance, what does that have to do with suppresion resetting?
I would like you to come up with solid proof (cruzzi or some other stat wizard saying this or a video showing).
As of now, you have nothing so i expect you not to claim this bug exists.
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
25 Mar 2016, 17:33 PM
#26
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Some time ago, I saw Volks approaching my Vickers thorugh red cover.
I was like "Meh, they will be pinned in 2-3 burts" and went to more important part of the map.
After few secs I realized I lost 2 models of the Vickers' crew.
Imagine that Volks in a red cover were able to crawl all the way down to Vickers and throw a nade
I was like "Meh, they will be pinned in 2-3 burts" and went to more important part of the map.
After few secs I realized I lost 2 models of the Vickers' crew.
Imagine that Volks in a red cover were able to crawl all the way down to Vickers and throw a nade
25 Mar 2016, 17:41 PM
#27
Posts: 680
Just tested this with an invulnerable squad of Volks...
Pinned after 22 seconds wandering up across open ground on a Vickers whilst invulnerable. After 26 seconds whilst actually taking fire and losing 2 models. Seemed to take an extra second to suppress too.
There might be something in it...
Pinned after 22 seconds wandering up across open ground on a Vickers whilst invulnerable. After 26 seconds whilst actually taking fire and losing 2 models. Seemed to take an extra second to suppress too.
There might be something in it...
25 Mar 2016, 18:59 PM
#28
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
The Vickers' performance should be flattened. Its suppression performance is uneven and unreliable while its garrison effectiveness especially after vet 1 is pretty much unmatched and giving UKF a giant advantage in maps with buildings overlooking critical areas.
It should be more reliable at suppressing and less "I'm garrisoned now, GG".
It should be more reliable at suppressing and less "I'm garrisoned now, GG".
25 Mar 2016, 19:30 PM
#29
Posts: 320
I pretty much accept that I'm buying this thing for light suppression and high damage output. Cuz it won't counter a blob, the thing it should do.
25 Mar 2016, 19:46 PM
#30
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
The Vickers' performance should be flattened. Its suppression performance is uneven and unreliable while its garrison effectiveness especially after vet 1 is pretty much unmatched and giving UKF a giant advantage in maps with buildings overlooking critical areas.
It should be more reliable at suppressing and less "I'm garrisoned now, GG".
+1 ... Vet 1 Vickers in Train Station on Ettlebruck with a Mortar Pit behind it = fun times lol
But in its current form you have to use it as Spin suggested - pretty much as a tool to slow down blobs and let your nearby infantry mop them up otherwise an ungarrisoned/unsupported Vickers is indeed hopeless.
25 Mar 2016, 20:35 PM
#31
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
Agreed, either needs more suppression and/or damage decrease or lower it's price to that of the MG42 or lower, and by lower I mean 250 perhaps, not 210 like the MG34, 240 is the lowest price I'd put it at.
25 Mar 2016, 20:39 PM
#32
Posts: 332
(according to stat.cho2.hu)
Suppression per Second (far/near)
MG34 - 0.06 / 0.10
DPS (calculated for a certain target, general infantry)
MG34 - 1.36 / 10.99
Is that DPS Right? Wow it is not worth picking a doctrine for it. I hope that DPS at far is wrong.
25 Mar 2016, 20:41 PM
#33
Posts: 738
Is that DPS Right? Wow it is not worth picking a doctrine for it. I hope that DPS at far is wrong.
yes
Ostruppen do better DPS than the OKW MG34, even with incediary rounds it struggles to kill stuff
26 Mar 2016, 00:56 AM
#34
Posts: 247
It's not just the Vickers that suffers from this issue, every MG suffers against blobs because smokes, grenades, LMGs and instagib indirect are so readily available.
26 Mar 2016, 02:10 AM
#35
Posts: 1122
Vickers is terrible for its price, it doesnt do more damage than hmg 42, untill wehr guy you play against have no clue about existence of incendiary rounds. vet 1 +10 range in buildings should be removed and replaced with proper suppression buff, this ability equally stupid to play against as 280mp HMG which doesn't suppress.
Also i love when obers kill my hmgs from the front rambо-style.
Also i love when obers kill my hmgs from the front rambо-style.
26 Mar 2016, 02:35 AM
#36
Posts: 622
The Vickers' performance should be flattened. Its suppression performance is uneven and unreliable while its garrison effectiveness especially after vet 1 is pretty much unmatched and giving UKF a giant advantage in maps with buildings overlooking critical areas.
It should be more reliable at suppressing and less "I'm garrisoned now, GG".
+1 on this, i just had a game where my HMG 42 get in building first and firing at Vickers it got pin but craw in building and setup and KILLED my HMG42 sq in mid range building shot out, while my first group dying my 2nd HMG team entering the building the first HMG42 dead and 2nd team lost 1 model during setup, while vicker still have 3 men, in the end vicker wipe my 2nd HMG 42 sq and still have 2 model left. it is pure BS when vicker is in building. the suppression how ever sucks really bad. if there is a light vehicle in range with infantry around it. usually the other HMG fire at vehicle is usually instant pin for infantry around it, while vicker still need 2 burst.
26 Mar 2016, 03:28 AM
#37
Posts: 66
(according to stat.cho2.hu)
Suppression per Second (far/near)
MG34 - 0.06 / 0.10
MG42 - 0.07 / 0.11
Maxim - 0.08 / 0.07 (better for far, interesting)
DShK - 0.11 / 0.18
.50 cal - 0.09 / 0.17
Vickers - 0.06 / 0.09
DPS (calculated for a certain target, general infantry)
MG34 - 1.36 / 10.99
MG42 - 7.85 / 25.85
Maxim - 7.05 / 13.42
DShK - 9.28 / 30.15
.50 cal - 9.09 / 27.30
Vickers - 7.33 / 34.86
So yeah, Vickers has the best DPS (for closer ranges), but the worst suppression (for far ranges)
The only thing I see here is how ridiculously bad the doctrinal MG34 is, and realize why I learned to never build them.
Vickers is the best HMG in the game but you can't leave it alone to guard an area, it must be supported by other infantry to spot for it and/or punish those trying to rush it.
Joseph
26 Mar 2016, 03:50 AM
#38
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Close DPS is mostly useless against MG as no one is gonna sit nearby one. I think comparing mid and far are more relevant.
Also: should incremental accuracy work every 3 models instead of 2? Reminder that accuracy is involved with AoE suppression.
While a slight adjust might be needed, this would mean a more reliable damage/suppression against blobs of lower model count.
Note: unless something has changed, make a test and see how long it takes for a Rifle behind a sandbag takes to get suppressed in comparison to conscripts. Now run the same test with 2 sandbags and 2 conscripts and cry.
Also: should incremental accuracy work every 3 models instead of 2? Reminder that accuracy is involved with AoE suppression.
While a slight adjust might be needed, this would mean a more reliable damage/suppression against blobs of lower model count.
Note: unless something has changed, make a test and see how long it takes for a Rifle behind a sandbag takes to get suppressed in comparison to conscripts. Now run the same test with 2 sandbags and 2 conscripts and cry.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
26 Mar 2016, 04:19 AM
#39
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Close DPS is mostly useless against MG as no one is gonna sit nearby one. I think comparing mid and far are more relevant.
Speaking of which, does anyone know how the Vickers 1v1s any HMG while garrisoned bar none? I can't decipher it from the stats.
26 Mar 2016, 14:26 PM
#40
Posts: 680
Think this is due to the other HMGs generally having subs (MP40 etc) whereas the nerfed Lee Enfields on the Vickers squad still tip the balance in garrison vs garrison.
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