Officiers und der Offiziere - USSR is lackluster again

So, I guess everyone saw that "No step back!" doctrine, which wasn't released for some reasons (balance I think). Doctrine itself was nice, but best part of it was... NKVD Commissar Officier, USSR could get long time requiered officier in army. And we lost it those time...

Let's look at situation with officiers in game closely:

Officiers of all types in CoH 2 suppoused to give some buffs to nearby troops. That works with almost all officiers in game. And all factions in game have such type of officiers... except USSR.

More that that, Axis also have "Tank-offiziers" (Pz4 and Panther command), which are pretty cool and grant cool bonuses to units around! And allies have only infantry-type, and even they are not so... usefull maybe. Lieutenant is not officier at all, just "little better" Rifleman squad, Capitan is more or less good and Major is only good for to be "retreat point" - for that purpouses OKW and UK use FHQs, actually. And UK's Commando Field Officier is cool, but... he is combat unit itself, not supporting mostly, like same Sturmoffizier or Artilleryoffizier.

Anyway, point is - USSR needs Commissars, as Commissar myself I can approve it! USSR's stock infantry is horrible, they definitely need "motivation" bonus for to fight hard and effective, that bonus can be provided by field officiers.

I suggest to add that NKVD Commissar squad in game already with some doctrines, or even make it stock for USSR, like for USF!

For example, let's put NKVD squad in soviet T1. It will make T1 waaaay more popular for people, who don't want to play in "Maxim spam" and will make more effective game without support guns for USSR, only with mainline infantry Conscripts in core (buffed with Commissar attention). More flexibility for USSR and more different playstyles.

Or again, change some useless abilities in doctrines with Commissar squad. Will be fine too.

I definitively agree that we cant have a soviet stereotyped army without the classic commissar, but as any other officer, i personally think it should be on a doctrine, like NKVD rifle tactics, that has a bunch of skills that doesnt make any sense with his name

+1

NKVD Commissar Officer

Let's start from the top. Commissar was the title of the party representatives in the RKKA. They were NOT members of the NKVD. They wore army uniforms and were a part of the armys political structure, not the NKVD.
Relic made the same mistake but whatever, as a Commissar yourself you should know this.


On to gameplay.

What exactly would be the powers of this NKVD squad? (Ignoring for a while it would be unhistorical to say the least.)

Just an aura buff? Why? Because the other factions have that toy in the form of units? Soviets have plenty of aura buffs but as call-in from commanders.

USSR infantry isn't horrible, Cons are incredibly versatile and quite resilient. They work wonders in tandem with support units and vehicles.

T1 Isn't shit, Penals are great, snipers awesome and the clown car is a very valid build. People prefer the T-2 due to the current meta, but if people were to experiment a bit with T1 it would be more popular. As more people learn how to counter maxims, T1 will be more popular.


The Soviets aren't lacking so much as to add this unit. The only argument I see is that you'd think it be cool.

we dont need more units or officers, which effects other units by his aura with bonus. Makes blobbing even more attractive and the game more unbalanced.
A "passive" officer would be much better. Where you can call-in smoke, arty strikes or whatever.

On to gameplay.

What exactly would be the powers of this NKVD squad? (Ignoring for a while it would be unhistorical to say the least.)

Just an aura buff? Why? Because the other factions have that toy in the form of units? Soviets have plenty of aura buffs but as call-in from commanders.

USSR infantry isn't horrible, Cons are incredibly versatile and quite resilient. They work wonders in tandem with support units and vehicles.

T1 Isn't shit, Penals are great, snipers awesome and the clown car is a very valid build. People prefer the T-2 due to the current meta, but if people were to experiment a bit with T1 it would be more popular. As more people learn how to counter maxims, T1 will be more popular.


The Soviets aren't lacking so much as to add this unit. The only argument I see is that you'd think it be cool.

I think, that "aura buff" will be bad idea. Maybe they should be like Imperial Commissars in DoW - shot one "coward and traitor" down and grant short but efficient buff for all squads around. Maybe they could also have ability to shot one "coward and traior" for to break supression and give short time immunity for all squads around, like USF Capitan's "On me!". I think all his abilities should be connected with executions or pressing on soldiers. Hard frontline motivating, in other words. And Im not joking.

It might be "historicaly wrong" or something like that, but Relic doesn't care about history in CoH, really so, that's last point which we should think about.

USSR's stock infantry is really horrible, if you will compare them with stock infantry of other factions. Cons are worst stock infantry in game at all (if we don't talk about engineers squad, of course). Low accuracy, lowest rate of fire, (as I think) increased "recived accuracy", and no way to scale them to be effective in late. No additional weapons without doctrines, and no officiers to buff them.

Same Artillery Officier of Ostheer with his "accuracy buff" turns Ostheer infantry into monsters - they almost never miss with that and dealing huge damage. But without him - ostheer infantry is pretty weak. So, adding officier is a good way to making poor infantry more effective.

And T1 is horrible shit. It has no AT, and only specific thing it has are snipers. Clown cars dying from fausts and fast-shrecks/222s, and Penals are just "little more effective version of Cons, without AT nades, but with big explosive rack". They are "situative usefull", not like "always usefull" Obers, for example. Majority won't pick T1 not because "it's such meta right now", but because units in T2 simply way better, than in T1. And adding Commissar in T1 will make it more reliable with intresting playstyle "without supports, only with straight infantry forces". So, why not?

And most obvious - don't you think, that USSR is already feel luck of a lot type of things in compare with all other factions? USSR doesn't have static defenses (bunkers/MG positions), but all factions have. USSR doesn't have non-doctrinal AT-weapons for infantry, all other factions have. USSR doesn't have officiers, but all others have. That all makes USSR looks pity...

I think, that "aura buff" will be bad idea. Maybe they should be like Imperial Commissars in DoW - shot one "coward and traitor" down and grant short but efficient buff for all squads around. Maybe they could also have ability to shot one "coward and traior" for to break supression and give short time immunity for all squads around, like USF Capitan's "On me!". I think all his abilities should be connected with executions or pressing on soldiers. Hard frontline motivating, in other words. And Im not joking.

It might be "historicaly wrong" or something like that, but Relic doesn't care about history in CoH, really so, that's last point which we should think about.

Thank you Enemy at the Gates. Fuck you Jude Law.

USSR's stock infantry is really horrible, if you will compare them with stock infantry of other factions. Cons are worst stock infantry in game at all (if we don't talk about engineers squad, of course). Low accuracy, lowest rate of fire, (as I think) increased "recived accuracy", and no way to scale them to be effective in late. No additional weapons without doctrines, and no officiers to buff them.

Same Artillery Officier of Ostheer with his "accuracy buff" turns Ostheer infantry into monsters - they almost never miss with that and dealing huge damage. But without him - ostheer infantry is pretty weak. So, adding officier is a good way to making poor infantry more effective.

And T1 is horrible shit. It has no AT, and only specific thing it has are snipers. Clown cars dying from fausts and fast-shrecks/222s, and Penals are just "little more effective version of Cons, without AT nades, but with big explosive rack". They are "situative usefull", not like "always usefull" Obers, for example. Majority won't pick T1 not because "it's such meta right now", but because units in T2 simply way better, than in T1. And adding Commissar in T1 will make it more reliable with intresting playstyle "without supports, only with straing infantry forces". So, why not?

And most obvious - don't you think, that USSR is already luck of a lot type of things in compare with all other factions? USSR doesn't have static defenses (bunkers/MG positions), but all factions have. USSR doesn't have non-doctrinal AT-weapons for infantry, all other factions have. USSR doesn't have officiers, but all others have. That all makes USSR looks pity...

You are ignoring cost and HP. Cons can soak damage and are cheap to reinforce. They will beat Grens and Volks up close, don't see how having to fight at larger combat ranges makes them worst in the game.
They scale very well with vet and are a must have in later games, especially in team-games. For no other reason than that they can go into the fray, and stay there for longer than others.

T1 Isn't shit. Penals are very very useful and at vet 3 they become an incredibly effective means to knock out enemy infantry, again dirt-cheap to reinforce.

If your clown cars get in range of fausts that's not really the fault of the game balance, keep your distance. You know how long their range is.

Sure you do not have AT-guns, but you still have mines, AT-nades, or just infantry and some cover will do you fine. If you include doctrines you have even more.


The bottom line is: Factions do not have comparable units. The Soviets aren't lacking anything, they have good offensive and defensive power, sure it is different but so are all factions. You want things you think would be cool. Nothing else. Balance wise the game is in a very good spot at the moment.

If you go over to coh2chart.com and look at the actual data you'll find that balance is better now than it ever was before.

They will beat Grens and Volks up close

While I think cons are fine, they actually lose against volks up close in my experience. Would love if someone could test this.

T1 Isn't shit. Penals are very very useful and at vet 3 they become an incredibly effective means to knock out enemy infantry, again dirt-cheap to reinforce.

Partly disagree. T1 = sniper + clown car, penals are actually shit. It's possible to get them to work on some maps, but there's a reason they are almost non-existant in ESL.

The bottom line is: Factions do not have comparable units. The Soviets aren't lacking anything, they have good offensive and defensive power, sure it is different but so are all factions. You want things you think would be cool. Nothing else. Balance wise the game is in a very good spot at the moment.

If you go over to coh2chart.com and look at the actual data you'll find that balance is better now than it ever was before.

Agree. But there's nothing fundamentally wrong with wanting cool stuff

A zampolit wouldn't look all too bad. Historical and effective.

I was imagining an Inf commander for Sovs for a while now. No callin infantry, but DP-28s for Cons and Penals, a Zampolit that boosts the Cons and Penals while nearby or something like this, so this would be a good infantry build but would have to rely on mines/atguns/su 85 against armour.

But for me this would just be flavour.

T1 Isn't shit, Penals are great, snipers awesome and the clown car is a very valid build. People prefer the T-2 due to the current meta, but if people were to experiment a bit with T1 it would be more popular. As more people learn how to counter maxims, T1 will be more popular.

I can vouch for this, though in a 1v1 it is harder.

Thank you Enemy at the Gates. Fuck you Jude Law.

What that movie lacks in historical accuracy, it nearly makes up for it in one of the most honest and human sex scenes in movies.

It could be the soviet response for the foward retreat point, by cancelling al retreAts with an skill

What I'm about to say may sound offensive, but I distance myself from generalizations and want to assure you that I generally have good respect towards the nation I'm about to mention, but...

... russians have shittalked the game after release because it hurt their feelings.
Relic should take revenge by adding the stereotypical commissar to the soviet basic tier It doesn't make a difference at this point. Metacritic user reviews were already shitbombed by plenty of pissed russians (even to this day!)

I say, DO IT!!! (yes, I'm evil)


On a more serious note: I think OP actually makes a sensible proposition. A commissar would give T1 more "flavor", potentially making it more attractive. Though a DoW-like "execution" ability (as suggested in a later post) goes too far, IMO. I'd prefer a more down-to-earth frontline-officer-like role for a commissar type of unit.

The Commissioner is not a good idea:
- The commissioners have the power in 1941-1942 (we kind play in 1944-1945, no?). By 1943, Commissioners doing propaganda and maintaining morality.
- Looks very stereotypical: a stick for ten, maxims in the back and other stereotype heresy.

The Commissioner is not a good idea:
- The commissioners have the power in 1941-1942 (we kind play in 1944-1945, no?). By 1943, Commissioners doing propaganda and maintaining morality.
- Looks very stereotypical: a stick for ten, maxims in the back and other stereotype heresy.

Well, again, CoH 2 is not about history, realism or something like that. Relic said that long time ago, so historical issues are not so important in that. For example, T-34-76 was mostly actuall in 1942-43, after that mainline soviet tank was T-34-85. But... mainline middle in CoH 2 is old 76, not modern 85.

And what's wrong in stereotypes?) Im Russian myself, and I see no problems in using some popular stereotypes in films or games. Those, who protested against "Soviet campaing in CoH 2, nazi Relic, fufufu!" were dumbest idiots. That's a game, it suppoused, also, to make fun and be interesting, and stereotypes may make game really more interesting Even if it is cruel NKVD Officiers, trying to hold order by executions.

The campaign was awful; made my skin crawl.

Vague gesture to toward staying on topic: nothing wrong with officer idea in principle, but the other day Kyle said no more commanders were planned, and I would probably die of shock if they added a unit without one.

Off-Topic post Show Spoiler

Well, it may be, actually, any command unit, not nessecerly NKVD Commissar. It may be Politruk, it may be any officier, but USSR needs them.

Well, it may be, actually, any command unit, not nessecerly NKVD Commissar. It may be Politruk, it may be any officier, but USSR needs them.

Again "Комиссар НКВД" is not a thing. Sure "Комиссар ГП 1/2/3-гo Ранга" was used in lieu of General titles, but "Комиссар" refers exclusively to Political Officers of the equivalent rank of major or higher, and in everyday speech to political staff in general.


What you want to say is "not necessarily NKVD officers, it may be commissars, it may be a regular officer, but USSR needs them."

Im sorry but this is a pet peeve of mine and somebody named after the institution and seems to indicate being knowledgeable should at least have the very basics right.

It could be the soviet response for the foward retreat point, by cancelling al retreAts with an skill

That would be neat
Maybe an active that reduces supression at the cost of reduced damage reduction if they retreat (actually that would be a neat vet ability for penals)
In the spear head mod the commissar has an aura that reduces supression and increases rof, that might work too