Sturmpioneers - Uberpioneers

I don't ask to "fully copy everything from vCoH", don't you understand? Just some things, which could only make game BETTER! More than that, they used a lot from vCoH's mechanics for to make it. USSR looks pretty like USF in vCoH, Wehrmacht has something similar to vCoH's Wermacht... Only new factions are 100% original, but that maybe reason, why they all are broken in that way or another.

So, why not to use those ideas and make game better? Global upgrades for USSR, for expample.

Don't be stubborn, Kubel as starting unit is a really bad idea or you need to nerf it hard. The problem with OKW is none of the T0 units is balanced as starting unit vs USF or Soviet.

You guys gotta stop saying this is balanced, it's not.

It used to be balanced: when buying a second squad was expensive and slow and volks were crappy. They also had less resource income to slow down their tech a bit. (Which meant gaining extra map control at the start of the game didn't snowball.) They also had Luchs come out a few minutes later, which was more balanced. (Luchs was a 9-11 minute unit before, now it's a 6-7)

I don't think sturms are the root of the problem, although making them cheaper continues to be a full retard design decision. (Kind of like 210 mp Sappers)

It used to be balanced: when buying a second squad was expensive and slow and volks were crappy. They also had less resource income to slow down their tech a bit. (Which meant gaining extra map control at the start of the game didn't snowball.) They also had Luchs come out a few minutes later, which was more balanced. (Luchs was a 9-11 minute unit before, now it's a 6-7)

I don't think sturms are the root of the problem, although making them cheaper continues to be a full retard design decision. (Kind of like 210 mp Sappers)

The whole unbalanced state is described here.
From early sturms to early luchs.

I don't even get how they could possibly think this is fair in any shape or form.

It's slow, absurdly slow (for a ridiculous cons dance) it doesn't do as much DPS as the OKW flame nade, and if anything, by the time you get to throw it (remember that when you throw a grenade, you deal less regular DPS from your squad),

Apart from the throw time, OKW's flame nade is exactly the same as the moltov

Apart from the throw time, OKW's flame nade is exactly the same as the moltov

Incendiary Grenade has 5 more range as well.

1.I believe the OKW mine is the same as the SU mine(stat and cost-wise).
2.They changed it to regular barbed wire, it just looks the same as before
3.Only at mid range.
4.Yeah, they are arguably the second best grenades in the game(Commandos grenade/mini satchel is boss).
5.I rarely if ever see this used, kinda a forgotten/overlooked ability.

Things to consider though, unit is 300MP and 30-32MP to reinforce. This unit is the only decent combat unit for OKW until late game, expensive Obers(non-doc).

1.US mine is a doctrinal choice, which is a big, big difference.

3.Which is an advantage, over usual low rate of fire longer ranged infantry units.

5.I agree, but it is there non the less, which can help you with field presence.

It used to be balanced: when buying a second squad was expensive and slow and volks were crappy. They also had less resource income to slow down their tech a bit. (Which meant gaining extra map control at the start of the game didn't snowball.) They also had Luchs come out a few minutes later, which was more balanced. (Luchs was a 9-11 minute unit before, now it's a 6-7)

I don't think sturms are the root of the problem, although making them cheaper continues to be a full retard design decision. (Kind of like 210 mp Sappers)

Oh my, where to start with your incomplete statement of "facts" ?

Well, lets take it from the top then: volks were are also made more expensive, their vet 4-5 bonuses were nerfed.
The OkW teching price also got increased, aswell as fuel cost for several units (basicly the same model as before, only in a limited amount of units)
And last, but certianly not least of your incomplete analyses: Luchs comes out at the same time as the t70 and the stuart, therefor it's a good timing with the other light vehicle's/tanks.

As for sturms being cheaper: they were horribly, horribly cost-ineffective before the changes made to them. There was a reason no one build a second sturmpio squad and it wasn't because everyone couldn't think of such a insane idea to do it...

1.US mine is a doctrinal choice, which is a big, big difference.

A. he was talking about the sov mine, which to my understanding is not doctrinal....
B. the USF, UKF Sovjet and OkW shu-mine are all the same, with the same retarded 33% chance to cause heavy engine damage (and we all know: heavy engine damage = ded tank)+ the usual oneshot squad capabilities.
C. Since volks schrecks are a thing (mandatory and no-brainer upgrade, how i hate it) and shu-mines come on rather expensive sqauds, there is less usage of them and they are used vs larger squadsizes so calling them "the best" might technically be true, but i'dd say there is more too it then that.

Oh my, where to start with your incomplete statement of "facts" ?

Well, lets take it from the top then: volks were are also made more expensive, their vet 4-5 bonuses were nerfed.
The OkW teching price also got increased, aswell as fuel cost for several units (basicly the same model as before, only in a limited amount of units)
And last, but certianly not least of your incomplete analyses: Luchs comes out at the same time as the t70 and the stuart, therefor it's a good timing with the other light vehicle's/tanks.

As for sturms being cheaper: they were horribly, horribly cost-ineffective before the changes made to them. There was a reason no one build a second sturmpio squad and it wasn't because everyone couldn't think of such a insane idea to do it...

Volks were made 6% more expensive but were buffed 20% in damage. Their vet bonuses are "weaker" in the most superficial way, they still gain a ton of accuracy buffs that make them really strong compared to say Conscripts. (Although not as tanky)

Teching got increased, but we lost reduced income + conversion. It's still faster now to tech.


How cost effective SMG units are depends on how you use them.

The thing with volks is that they got schrecks to give them that vet like crazy. Volks rifles do 8 damage. Schrecks deal 120.

It's the only unit I have ever consistently been able to get to vet 5 without even trying. Getting vet 5 on just about any other unit OKW has feels like an achievement, but for volks? Business as usual.