Sturmpioneers - Uberpioneers

"I'm not saying ONLY build SP. I just think the ratio of SP to volks works better with 2-3 sturms and 1-2 volks rather than 1 sturm and 4 volks. Granted, I also favour lots of light vehicle play and lots of mines while most people seem to prefer lots of panzerschrecks and assault grenades."

I certainly find this the hardest to play against, did a comparison on one of the threads to get some idea of the manpower efficiency of the different units and Sturms were ridiculous at close range and surprisingly decent at mid.

I rather suspect if I'd included Vet in the calculation then Sturms would have walked it against all other infantry types rather than merely standing out as an outlier.

It's just obvious the only problem with sturms so far is that they are available as starting unit when they shouldn't.

If an OKW player wants to rush in early game, he has to pay for this choice.
Right now rushing is a 70% guaranteed way to win when coupled with volk blob(in early game again) and they have nothing to pay for it, it's free, highly rewarding, almost no cons to the strategy, whenever in danger = retreat.

It can be countered as USF, or UK.
But as Soviet, this meta is decisive.


Rushingg sturms is the most annoying thing so far, or maybe it's just me?

Sturms have both long build times, and long reinforce times. How much map presence would you really get out of a heavy sturm build? And they have to get fairly close, which makes them rather more easy to Molotov than grens.

Molotovs are not good anymore, are you playing the game in 2013 ?
Whoever uses them as grenades is a huge noob.

[unnecessary snark removed]

Sorry about that.
Just saying that being able to throw molotovs at sturms is impossible.

It's not like the flame grenade from the counterpart.
It's slow, absurdly slow (for a ridiculous cons dance) it doesn't do as much DPS as the OKW flame nade, and if anything, by the time you get to throw it (remember that when you throw a grenade, you deal less regular DPS from your squad), the sturms would have ripped your entire cons squad.


Sturms are not good as a main infantry unit, the whole meta right now is to use them as rushing unit.
So OKW has both the suprority in early and mid game, just because they have sturms available from start.

Again just change this, and it's all good.
This unit needs only a nerf in repair time, not in DPS.

Whether or not the Molotov is as good as the incendiary grenade is neither here nor there. I'm just pointing out that this is an expensive, slow to build unit, that is more exposed to this danger than grens or volks would be. And in the early game, DoT that reduces the health of the squad, even without killing a model, is still a big deal before the battlegruppe comes up.

I'm just quite sceptical that a heavy sturm build will work out well, and will remain so until I see it done.

The picture is easy to get.
It's literally having shocks as an early unit.

How do you counter sturms rushing in your base when you just started?

The only way is to blob 2 cons, or 2 penals, then imagine when they shelter in houses.

What's even worse, is that a sturm has the advantage if you are the one sheltering cons in house but they are at close range (this is an actual unbalanced feature only sturms can do )

stuff

So, in the end it turns out i was right.
This went alot easier then expected.

How do you counter sturms rushing in your base when you just started?

Base mg's are a thing you know.

How do you counter sturms rushing in your base when you just started?

The only way is to blob 2 cons, or 2 penals, then imagine when they shelter in houses.

I asked about map presence; I'm suggesting you ignore them and cap the map. I did not argue that cons could easily take them down.

So, in the end it turns out i was right.
This went alot easier then expected.



Base mg's are a thing you know.

I didn't mean rush base per se.
I meant rushing points close to your base the ones you need to link yourself to other resources.

I asked about map presence; I'm suggesting you ignore them and cap the map. I did not argue that cons could easily take them down.

Map control is near impossible because of it, it really depends on luck in some maps where sturms can get you stuck and in the end for you to blob up until you have good means to counter them.

Which means that if on top of being stuck at some place, your blob fails to gain map control at either left or right side, you're done already.

I need to cap both fuel point to be sure to win, if not I'll have to spend the whole game managing a way to counter tanks.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=0

Almost as strong as Commandos at Vet0, considerably better at range, get better Vet, are T1 and cost 140MP less or are free, less popcap and considerably less to reinforce.

Maybe UKF should start with a squad of Commandos... Can you even imagine the whining and whingeing if this was the case?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=0

Almost as strong as Commandos at Vet0, considerably better at range, get better Vet, are T1 and cost 250MP less or are free, less popcap and considerably less to reinforce.

Maybe UKF should start with a squad of Commandos... Can you even imagine the whining and whingeing if this was the case?

LUL

According to your source

Sturmpioneers at Range 0 have 63,571DPS, while Commandos have 98,7966

At Range 10 this turns into 43,379 for SP and still 98,7966 DPS for commandos

Commandos cost 350 mp btw and have invisibility as well as nuke grenades. Also they casually beat any other Infantry at any vet or with any upgrade in the game.


So yeah, you should start in elementary school again Kappa

Threads like this make me wanna cry. Is it due to the problem with the official forums, that our balance thread sections gets filled with nonsense every day? Accounts like MissCommissar, prbly a multi of someone around here anyways just lower the value of this site drastically. A lot of people just get sick of even bothering with new threads. I'd love to see the balance forums locked for an entire week or two. Stop the balance whine bs - start play the game.

"Commandos cost 350 mp btw and have invisibility as well as nuke grenades. Also they casually beat any other Infantry at any vet or with any upgrade in the game. "

No, they cost 440 or 500 from a Glider. They cost 350 if you have already spent 540 on ALO / FLG

Just tested them against Vet 2 Sturms at close range. Lost 2 out of 3 times.

#casuallyBooksDomineIntoElementarySchool

His point still stands, at an early game, as a starting unit, the difference in strength is that of a commando vs a volk squad.

You guys gotta stop saying this is balanced, it's not.
The only starting unit should be the kubel, just like the PE back in COH 1.

What purpose do they serve as a starting unit other than breaking the balance?

"Commandos cost 350 mp btw and have invisibility as well as nuke grenades. Also they casually beat any other Infantry at any vet or with any upgrade in the game. "

No, they cost 440 or 500 from a Glider. They cost 350 if you have already spent 540 on ALO / FLG

Just tested them against Vet 2 Sturms at close range. Lost 2 out of 3 times.

#casuallyBooksDomineIntoElementarySchool

LUL

Learn your units

440 is Infiltration Commandos
Commandos are 350

Unless of course you want to include teching, but then you'll have say that Obers cost 175 fuel and 1000 Manpower as well Kappa

Also LUL at Sturms beating Commandos. If only you would have actually tested that...

Just tested them against Vet 2 Sturms at close range. Lost 2 out of 3 times.

A: suddenly sturmpio's have vet 2 at the beginning of the game.

B. perhaps the issue is related to the person using the commando's.....

Why is this thread still up?

So much just complete bullshit in this thread.

"Sturms are a free unit"
No, you pay for every starting unit out of your starting manpower. That is why Soviets start with 60 more manpower thank OKW. You will get out more units than them faster.

"Sometimes when I 1v1 sturms, they win."
Well duh, they are more expensive. If you are playing against OKW send your engineer/re with your first infantry squad to your fuel and 2v1 them. You will win every time unless you walk up to them. If you are UKF it's even easier. Once you push them off, cap the map with ease. They will be out for awhile and you only have volks to deal with. There is a reason you don't see pros rush for the cutoff at the very beginning of the game as OKW.

"I can't clear them from a house"
Good, if they are in a house they aren't doing anything. Leave a cheaper squad to watch them from max range and move on with your life. Don't walk up to the house and you won't die.

These are all L2P issues. Instead of making this thread every month you should ask how to deal with Sturm pios in the strategy section.

Why is this thread still up?

So much just complete bullshit in this thread.

"Sturms are a free unit"
No, you pay for every starting unit out of your starting manpower. That is why Soviets start with 60 more manpower thank OKW. You will get out more units than them faster.

"Sometimes when I 1v1 sturms, they win."
Well duh, they are more expensive. If you are playing against OKW send your engineer/re with your first infantry squad to your fuel and 2v1 them. You will win every time unless you walk up to them. If you are UKF it's even easier. Once you push them off, cap the map with ease. They will be out for awhile and you only have volks to deal with. There is a reason you don't see pros rush for the cutoff at the very beginning of the game as OKW.

"I can't clear them from a house"
Good, if they are in a house they aren't doing anything. Leave a cheaper squad to watch them from max range and move on with your life. Don't walk up to the house and you won't die.

These are all L2P issues. Instead of making this thread every month you should ask how to deal with Sturm pios in the strategy section.

How to deal with Sturm pios ?