222 Price needs to be looked at..

Watching Dusty getting wrecked in the NA ESL by a 666 just brought home my experiences in game with regard to the 222.

Brits have 4 counters.

The AEC now costs 60 fuel, and 75 include the unlock. It is very hard countered by double 222s for significantly less. The in game role of the AEC is to counter opposition light vehicles, yet is itself hard countered by massively cheaper light vehicles. Haven't experienced it myself but there is a suggestion that a well microed 222 can solo an AEC due to the slow turret rotation of the AEC.

Brit sniper has a role to play against light vehicles, though with equal sight range the bald Scottish dude doesn't in my expereince, stand a chance. Even surviving the retreat leads to the 222 base rape, which the Brit machine gun nests are unable to counter.

Piats. Lets not go there!

6 pounder. Can be reasonably effective if backing up an AEC, though 75 fuel and 600 MP for a point defence is not much use against the 222s mobility. Alone a 6 pounder is easily decrewed by a 222, might get a single shot off. Used in conjunction with an AEC massively limits the AEC's mobility, as if it chases, dives or merely wanders outside the effective use of a 6 pounder it dies easily and quickly to 2 x 222s.

Mines aren't really a counter as AEC plus 6 pounder is almost a requirement, hence building engineers and laying them is both luck orientated and happens too late for the vulnerable engineers to lay them in time.

Yeah, it's not really that 222s are uncountable. but they are way too accessible.

I can buy 3 222s to counter a allied light vehicle. Completely screw up and lose all of them, but still beat my opponent to medium armor given similar fuel.

Please note that I'm in no way against Ostheer having a useful light vehicle, when I capture one I rather enjoy the 222 myself!

With all of the Brits possible counters at T2 however there is a huge problem with getting the relevant units out on the field before being swarmed. IS in trenches do provide a speedbump, but can simply be bypassed, manpower limitations and tier locking clearly prevent a useful defence.

okey, this is comparison to ukf, but what about usf and soviet ? .. soviet can get quad truck just after I can get scout car, and so on.

Take all factions to consideration. Thanks

okey, this is comparison to ukf, but what about usf and soviet ? .. soviet can get quad truck just after I can get scout car, and so on.

Not really accurate. It can come a couple of minutes later if soviet player is going t1 and ignores AT-nades. Those few minutes would be crucial for the 222 as there is no real counters to it with that build order. Realistically, the quad arrives considerably later.

I dunno about usf, but I can speculate that zooks and early LV makes countering 222 easier.

230 20 -> 210 15 ninja change recently. this is maybe a bug not a balance problem.

222 vs USF issue is related to Ammo usage. Yes Zook counter 222 but while you equip 2 zooks on your RE, your opponent just equip 2 LMGs. And then again, 2 Zooks don't do anything vs 2 222. And to not forget that going USF t1/M20 cost you a supplement of ammo for the skirts.

Fuel cost is obviously too cheap. Compare the scout car to the m3 or the jeep, same fuel price. Needs to be 25, imo.

I think it should cost 20 fuel and 280 MP.

Fuel cost is obviously too cheap. Compare the scout car to the m3 or the jeep, same fuel price. Needs to be 25, imo.

Actually, WC51 is 25% more expensive while not being able to do anything on its own.

Actually, WC51 is 25% more expensive while not being able to do anything on its own.

It has self repair, can cap, and can be given to other players.

IMO the above + its timing make it a high risk/high reward early shock AND harass unit.

It has self repair, can cap, and can be given to other players.

IMO the above + its timing make it a high risk/high reward early shock AND harass unit.

Those are just USF things and not just based on the unit itself. And after the bren carrier changue i cant find a reason about why it shouldnt be fuel-less aswell

I'm not sure if "given to other player" is considered as an advantage though. Isn't decrewing and repair USF the faction's advantage? Well, I know that Relic is screwing consistency recently though..

It has self repair, can cap, and can be given to other players.

IMO the above + its timing make it a high risk/high reward early shock AND harass unit.

I can't self-repair, can't cap (you have to unload your troop/crew and they cap) and being given to other player is something I barely see any usage for tanks, so for a WC51... Vet1 ability is a speed increase for 10 seconds.

Pro: can load riflemen and they can shoot from it
Con: no armor, dead in one raken/pak shot and almost dead from any faust/shreck shot. 240mp/20fuel, has 0 chance to survive vs a 222.

Watching Dusty getting wrecked in the NA ESL

>watching NA

I can't self-repair, can't cap (you have to unload your troop/crew and they cap) and being given to other player is something I barely see any usage for tanks, so for a WC51... Vet1 ability is a speed increase for 10 seconds.

None of it is WC51 trait, these are all general USF traits.

Pro: can load riflemen and they can shoot from it
Con: no armor, dead in one raken/pak shot and almost dead from any faust/shreck shot. 240mp/20fuel, has 0 chance to survive vs a 222.

That pro is also a con, because without these rifles inside its useless, which also makes the "cap" argument irrelevant, because its not meant or even possible to use it without supporting infantry squad, just like M3, yet M3 is cheaper and stronger.

It's t0 unit which gives USF access to fast movement across map with it's strong riflemen, can drive past mg42 fire without getting suppression...

Stupid to compare it to 222. WC51 is fine, use it or not. If 222 is problem use bazookas, slow repair and micro to even keep engineers with 222 make it out of combat for a lot longer times than USF vehicles with self repair.

Keep the posting on AEC/Stuart vs 222.

ps. WC51 vs Kubbel...aren't u talking about that at all?

222 being op currently distracts from the fact that a lot of axis is pretty meh atm, it will get nerfed just like aec got nerfed but where will ostheer go from there?

222 being op currently distracts from the fact that a lot of axis is pretty meh atm, it will get nerfed just like aec got nerfed but where will ostheer go from there?

meh is fine. meh means it's working and can be useful. There are a ton of allied units and abilities that they wish were atleast meh.

None of it is WC51 trait, these are all general USF traits.



That pro is also a con, because without these rifles inside its useless, which also makes the "cap" argument irrelevant, because its not meant or even possible to use it without supporting infantry squad, just like M3, yet M3 is cheaper and stronger.

Those are general USF traits, but in the form of a super early vehicle which means there's less oppurtunity cost due to no loss in capping through self cap and repair. There's also withdraw and refit in the commander.

If you want an argument for buffing the unit, I think that the generally mediocre Mechanized Company is one