Anvil Churchill could use a SLIGHT buff

I'm ok with what smith say seems a n interesting way to buff the Churchill

Turn it into a black prince!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Only way for it to not be totally overshadowed by comet.

+1

280 armor and 1400 hp or accuracy and penetration increased .

I edited the OP to add a note about deflection damage. In short, the armour-for-HP tradeoff makes the Churchill BETTER at handling Schreck blobs than it would with lower HP but higher armour.

Churchill smoke has been reported as bugged.

Imo it not be shot blocker is should provide light cover and immunity to suppression. Then is would serve its design role...

Veternacy speed is something that should be looked at. There are units with high XP value that either do not do enough damage or can only harm low XP value target like infantry.

For damage sponges the change could be that they gain more XP when they are fired upon and give less to enemies...

Churchill smoke has been reported as bugged.

Imo it not be shot blocker is should provide light cover and immunity to suppression. Then is would serve its design role...

Veternacy speed is something that should be looked at. There are units with high XP value that either do not do enough damage or can only harm low XP value target like infantry.

For damage sponges the change could be that they gain more XP when they are fired upon and give less to enemies...

+1 for smoke

Churchill smoke has been reported as bugged.

Imo it not be shot blocker is should provide light cover and immunity to suppression. Then is would serve its design role...

When it comes to infantry-support, shot-blocker smoke would serve purpose quite well, if it were not for the AoE suppression bugs. Once that bug is sorted out, the Churchill will still not shine, but it will be able to provide useful utility to infantry for its Popcap cost.

However, when it comes to supporting other tanks, the light-cover smoke would gimp Churchill's poor utility even more. The Churchill already costs 18 popcap. It's not fast enough to manoeuvre so that it can block enemy tanks' path to your damage-dealing tanks. Popping that smoke is, currently, the only bit of utility that this unit has against opponents that are smart enough to ignore the Churchill and dive for the support guns.

PS: Yellow cover really sucks vs mortars or other tanks that are firing on advancing infantry. It's also very non-intuitive as a mechanic; commando smoke is already weird enough in that respect.

Veternacy speed is something that should be looked at. There are units with high XP value that either do not do enough damage or can only harm low XP value target like infantry.

For damage sponges the change could be that they gain more XP when they are fired upon and give less to enemies...

I think that almost every single other damage-sponge tank has a canon that deal significantly better AoE damage vs infantry. This allows you to keep your Heavy Tank investment at a relatively safe distance (where it can be retreated, if needed). Some tanks (e.g., King Tiger) even deal extra damage vs tanks.

The Churchill can't afford that luxury, since it needs to get really close so that it can use its Vet1 small arms + grenade. This awards way too much veterancy to the opposition and makes the battlefield a lot more dangerous for the Churchill-user in the long-run.

It should be a heavy tank, regardless of cost. Giving it's light armament and very slow speed it has to compensate with armour.

If it has to cost 250FU for 340+ armour then so be it, it will merely be a pale comparison to the Comet otherwise.

Churchill smoke has been reported as bugged.

Imo it not be shot blocker is should provide light cover and immunity to suppression. Then is would serve its design role...

Veternacy speed is something that should be looked at. There are units with high XP value that either do not do enough damage or can only harm low XP value target like infantry.

For damage sponges the change could be that they gain more XP when they are fired upon and give less to enemies...

the smoke would be better as shot blocker. The Churchill should be able to reverse back into its own smoke if the opposition is too heavy. Light cover smoke would be useless for that purpose.

the smoke would be better as shot blocker. The Churchill should be able to reverse back into its own smoke if the opposition is too heavy. Light cover smoke would be useless for that purpose.

Attack ground and Churchill is slow

Attack ground and Churchill is slow

Sight-blocking smoke + reverse really helps when you are targeted by heavy TDs. Attack ground at long range is very likely to miss (or hit any other obstacle on the way).

Close-ranged Panthers are not necessarily the only opponents that the Churchill faces in the battlefield.

However, we digress. A yellow-or-green-cover smoke provides no utility whatsoever to a late-game army composition (there should be craters everywhere, anyway). If there is an MG suppressing your units, the Churchill might as well drive up and grenade the MG.

Why is it so necessary to nerf the only utility that the Churchill has?

Attack ground and Churchill is slow

Attack ground can help bypass the smoke, but it's not a guarantee. Otherwise panzer tactician wouldn't be nearly as good as it is.

it would be more useful against the axis' super cannon like the elefant. Armors are effectively useless against them so you want to dodge them.

Why not green cover smoke ? + immunity to suppression

Why not green cover smoke ? + immunity to suppression

green cover wouldn't do anything for tank either. It needs to be shotblocker.

People have been complaining for ages about "panzer tactician" smoke and "blitz".

Churchill on the the other hand can get both of them for free with no veterancy (warspeed needs a hammer ally but gets full speed bonus).

The design intended of Churchill smoke is provide cover to infantry and not the vehicle, further more such a change would allow IS to attack with not penalties...

People have been complaining for age for panzer tactician smoke and blitz.

Churchill on the the other hand can get both of them for free with no veterancy (warspeed needs a hammer ally).

the design intended of Churchill smoke is provide cover to infantry and not the vehicle further more would allow IS to attack with not penalties...

Yes, people have been complaining for ages about panzer tactician smoke and blitz, and both of those abilities are still in game. Blitz received a nerf for panther and tiger, and a similar nerf can be apply to the warspeed if needed.

panzer tactician have been essentially the same since released. There's no reason to deny the ability to an allied unit as well.

the churchill's smoke ability sounds nice in theory, but the smoke round on the comet does a better job of providing smoke cover. In an offensive usage, you want the smoke to obstruct the enemy's firing lane, not your own.

the churchill is more about drawing enemy toward you and surviving their firepower. A defensive smoke ability would make that job much more easier.

I had a more thorough reply written, but the forums ate it on me.

While I agree it shouldn't be a vet pinata, I'd have to strongly disagree with the notion that its price/performance is fine.

It's simply too expensive for what it will ever be capable of. You can see how it died after the patch which increased the cost to current levels. I'd go as far as saying that building a Churchill is better for the opponent than it is for the player who built it.

It has poor speed and a relatively weak gun (it's literally a Cromwell's gun with a longer reload). In the end game that means you either need numbers or supporting tanks to achieve much of note. The problem is that its cost is so high that the opponent can easily afford units to nullify the Churchill. It's more expensive than the Ostheer Panther for example. As a british player, you're almost always better off going for the Comet or simply more Cromwells. The HP of the Churchill simply does not justify its current cost.

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the churchill's smoke ability sounds nice in theory, but the smoke round on the comet does a better job of providing smoke cover. In an offensive usage, you want the smoke to obstruct the enemy's firing lane, not your own.
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Churchill is an "infantry support tank" and its there to support infantry and be supported by infantry. Making these changes to smoke would actually allow it to support infantry by negating the cover penalty and reducing the affect of suppression.

Such a change would:
1)improve immersion making the tank behave as its real life design intent giving a unique ability.
2)it would improve in game design intent. The name of the ability is "Infantry support smoke" after all. If you check game files you will see that it seems that is set up to provide cover bonuses.