Changes For Tulips?

JPIV vet5 out of cammo deals 400dmg, PV mark vehicle is +50% dmg, heat shells is 30% dmg.
Enough to practically 1 shot a Pershing. No need to worry with accuracy or penetration as the vet5 bonus is 150% increase on both.

Ontopic: ATM Tank is practically paying it's cost to be a tulip platform unfortunately. You could make the tulips more of a support option while tweaking base stats of the tank or leave everything as it is now.

While that is very situational, its also crazy OP !!

Agreed. If tulips get nerfed, firefly must get buffed.

What needs nerfing is the insane amount of armour that Axis mediums carry with no apparent hit to mobility or firepower.

PIV has almost the same armour as a Churchill, Panthers are just insane and almost impossible to take out against a decent player.

Being forced to dive for a kill is ridiculous given the AT options you face.

move tulip unlock to vet 1 easy.

I'd prefer if Tulips become massive AT snares than their current all or nothing 240 rockets of death or misstruction while the gun got better.

My ideas implemented in my mod:

-Reload from 10 seconds to 8.
-Tulip Rockets now deal 120 damage from 240.
-Tulips now cause a blind critical on penetration and stuns the tank for 2.5 seconds. (Vehicle LOS reduced to 0 for 8 seconds)
-Tulip Rocket ability cost from 100 to 80.
-Tulip Recharge time from 120 to 80.

The tulip should remain as is, unless addressing the extreme low RoF of the Firefly, and the potency of German super heavy TD's, which require a Firefly alpha strike in order to even allow the Firefly a chance to kill them.

This is one option, which I completely agree with.

The moment that heavy TDs hit the field (Elefant/Jagtiger -- even the JP4), USF & Soviet TDs immediately become a liability:
- The Jackson is way too fragile and will go down in almost one shot
- The SU-85 has no turret, and can't play the chicken-game with the other TDs

If the Firefly cannot dish out burst damage vs these TDs, then it becomes yet another tank destroyer that has to sit in the back and do nothing.

This is because it's only the first shot that matters, and you are firing against a 400-500 armour target. The risk you are taking with each shot is that you run into a cloaked Raketen/JP4 and/or some stray schrecks.


Thus, the Firefly will have to sit uncomfortably next to the Churchill, the Jackson, the SU85, the m8, the SU76 and all other tanks that are hardcountered by the super-heavy TDs. That is, until some other units manage to do the job (which?).


However, I also like Miragefla's idea:

I'd prefer if Tulips become massive AT snares than their current all or nothing 240 rockets of death or misstruction while the gun got better.

My ideas implemented in my mod:

-Reload from 10 seconds to 8.
-Tulip Rockets now deal 120 damage from 240.
-Tulips now cause a blind critical on penetration and stuns the tank for 2.5 seconds. (Vehicle LOS reduced to 0 for 8 seconds)
-Tulip Rocket ability cost from 100 to 80.
-Tulip Recharge time from 120 to 80.

This would give the Firefly a lease of life to help countering the super-heavy TDs / aura-stacking command tanks, without immediately making all T3 armour irrelevant (the Brits have the Comet for that).

It will also make bumrush tactics against Fireflies a bit less rewarding.

However, if I want to be a nitpick, the Firefly also happens to be the only non-doctrinal solution that Brits have vs campy Pak43 placement (remember: no indirect fire, lacklustre assault infantry). Would it be possible to make the Tulips continue the pose a threat to the Pak43 -- or are you thinking of another option to deal with this blindsight?

Turn the high alpha into high DPS. Make the Tulip a good anti inf weapon or whatever, but atm it's really strong. No idea if it's op but it's not cool when there's simply two rockets of doom flying from the fog of war killing your 200 fuel vehicle in one go.

Another problem of Tulips is its high dependency on RNG. Just like many ppl above have said "its all or nothing", which I thought is something that relic had been avoiding . maybe the devs and the balance team doesn't really share the same ideas?

Another problem of Tulips is its high dependency on RNG. Just like many ppl above have said "its all or nothing", which I thought is something that relic had been avoiding . maybe the devs and the balance team doesn't really share the same ideas?

Its not high dependent on RNG if you're trying to shoot a Tulip while there is elevation there is a chance that the tulip will hit the ground because of the elevation but if its from a flat ground then it will hit and it also penetrates 100% now.

the point is to gave the british a reliable tank destroyer that's not prohibitively expensive or risky to use.

With the churchill and comet being both expensive generalist tank, the Firefly should be a cheaper anti-tank support.

There was a Valentine with the 6-pounder on it. Mark IX I think.

Its not high dependent on RNG if you're trying to shoot a Tulip while there is elevation there is a chance that the tulip will hit the ground because of the elevation but if its from a flat ground then it will hit and it also penetrates 100% now.

Even small craters of light artillery between Firefly and target seem to make a difference. Shoot with two tulips at a Panther on Ettelbrueck at the left bottom VP this morning. There is absolutely no higher ground on either side, but there were some small craters between Firefly and Panther. I wondered but both tulips hit the ground at medium range where the craters were. So if you do not want to be hit by tulips plough up the battlefield by heavy use of artillery ;-)

If tulips are broken it's that they don't hit enough. Hardly OP given the ridiculous armour ratings of the axis tanks.