The 222 definitely needed the health buff that it got. But I'm quite worried about the fact that the price was not adjusted at all. At only 15 fuel, the 222 is extremely cheap and I think this might lead to 222s being spammed too quickly for the allied players AT to deal with them, while not really delaying whermacht tech compared to other light vehicles.
For comparison, 3 222s will only cost 600 something manpower and only 45 fuel, yet will likely beat every allied light vehicle. All while delaying their tech less then the other light vehicles.
(Also the M20's price looks ridiculous compared to the 222)
Concerned about 222 price
19 Feb 2016, 21:00 PM
#1
Posts: 2561
19 Feb 2016, 21:03 PM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
You're concerned about M20 vs 222?
Try Greyhound vs 222.
222 owned it with old stats and that is 15 vs 40 fu.
Apparently 2cm autocannon was vastly superior AT weapon then 37mm Stuart main cannon.
Try Greyhound vs 222.
222 owned it with old stats and that is 15 vs 40 fu.
Apparently 2cm autocannon was vastly superior AT weapon then 37mm Stuart main cannon.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
19 Feb 2016, 21:04 PM
#3
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
Agreed, but I think we should wait until the patch comes out to see how it goes. As it is 2 222s can already take on a stuart if they get up in its ass with some rng and it doesn't stun them, I think the 50% health boost is a bit much.
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19 Feb 2016, 21:04 PM
#4
5 Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2
The 222 definitely needed the health buff that it got. But I'm quite worried about the fact that the price was not adjusted at all. At only 15 fuel, the 222 is extremely cheap and I think this might lead to 222s being spammed too quickly for the allied players AT to deal with them, while not really delaying whermacht tech compared to other light vehicles.
For comparison, 3 222s will only cost 600 something manpower and only 45 fuel, yet will likely beat every allied light vehicle. All while delaying their tech less then the other light vehicles.
(Also the M20's price looks ridiculous compared to the 222)
One thing to keep in mind is that building 3 222s takes a lot longer than producing one vehicle, and the longer the game goes the smaller the window of effectiveness for the 222 becomes. I could see the brits having an issue against a 222 rush, but the usf and soviets have plenty of options to deal with them.
19 Feb 2016, 21:05 PM
#5
Posts: 955
Well, patch hasnt been released yet, lets hope they adjust it. As if that bloody sniper wouldnt be enough
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
19 Feb 2016, 21:06 PM
#6
Posts: 794
"Concerned"
Right. A better protected Volkswagen which gibs 2 models with 100 bursts is a cause for concern. And 3 222s cost more than 600 MP for MP-Starved, fragile faction. That is 3 times more than a T70.
M20/M8 being overpriced is another story however.
Right. A better protected Volkswagen which gibs 2 models with 100 bursts is a cause for concern. And 3 222s cost more than 600 MP for MP-Starved, fragile faction. That is 3 times more than a T70.
M20/M8 being overpriced is another story however.
19 Feb 2016, 21:07 PM
#7
Posts: 80
Hopefully, 222 isn't a 5mn AEC. AT gun + mines, and pray, as every ostheer player did in the current state of the game.
19 Feb 2016, 21:12 PM
#8
Posts: 2561
One thing to keep in mind is that building 3 222s takes a lot longer than producing one vehicle, and the longer the game goes the smaller the window of effectiveness for the 222 becomes. I could see the brits having an issue against a 222 rush, but the usf and soviets have plenty of options to deal with them.
1. Building 222s can also start much earlier. As long as the player doesn't wait, they could build 3 222s before anything but a m20 and AEC.
2. The same could be said about all light vehicles. 222s do have late game versitility as a scout though if they attain vet.
3. Only if they tech correctly. If they go tier 1 or liutenant odds are they likely won't be able to accumulate enough ammo for nades an zooks to counter 2-3 222s whose combined health is now 640-960.
19 Feb 2016, 21:16 PM
#9
Posts: 295 | Subs: 1
Yeah, really...
because you know,
222 dont take any damage from small arms.
because its not requare good old 30-40 seconds to deal good damage to inf. because it wont be annihilated by soviet mines.
because Ostheer dont have to rush their tier T2 to have a chance against light armor.
because Ost dont suffer from expensive tech.
because only Ost have ability to disable engines.
because 222 has to shoot in the ass of any light tank to be able to beat. it.
because ost isnt the single faction without light armor play.
Like really why they even buffed that thing, ost is OP
because you know,
222 dont take any damage from small arms.
because its not requare good old 30-40 seconds to deal good damage to inf. because it wont be annihilated by soviet mines.
because Ostheer dont have to rush their tier T2 to have a chance against light armor.
because Ost dont suffer from expensive tech.
because only Ost have ability to disable engines.
because 222 has to shoot in the ass of any light tank to be able to beat. it.
because ost isnt the single faction without light armor play.
Like really why they even buffed that thing, ost is OP
19 Feb 2016, 21:19 PM
#10
Posts: 794
ost is OPIndeed, Specially the 222 and 251. These units are insane.
19 Feb 2016, 21:23 PM
#11
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Eh I don't understand the concern. HP buff doesn't change 222 performance OR its timing than current patch. I mean its not like Allies currently get swamped by 222s now. I don't really see how surviving small arms fire for a bit longer changes any of that. (Though I agree that Brits might struggle because who needs a vehicle snare when your non-doc snare gets hard countered by light vehicles)
19 Feb 2016, 21:24 PM
#12
Posts: 295 | Subs: 1
Also, so sad that USF sometimes will have to get some zooks not only bar\bar\bar\bar\bar or LMG\LMG\LMG\LMG against Ost ...
19 Feb 2016, 21:27 PM
#13
Posts: 2561
I don't want to be one of those players claiming OP before patch is out. Hell I have suggested 222 buffs in multiple threads.
But multiple 222s is one of my favorite wher strats, and it was always underrated. You'd be suprised how quick 3 222s can focus down a squad and just how much mobility this strat provided. And from first hand knowledge I think I'm right to be concerned about what they could do without their cost being adjusted a little.
But multiple 222s is one of my favorite wher strats, and it was always underrated. You'd be suprised how quick 3 222s can focus down a squad and just how much mobility this strat provided. And from first hand knowledge I think I'm right to be concerned about what they could do without their cost being adjusted a little.
19 Feb 2016, 21:27 PM
#14
Posts: 1072
Looks like allies will have to bite into buying some early, expensive ATGs like Ost has to do every game.
19 Feb 2016, 21:30 PM
#15
Posts: 1072
I don't want to be one of those players claiming OP before patch is out. Hell I have suggested 222 buffs in multiple threads.
But multiple 222s is one of my favorite wher strats, and it was always underrated. You'd be suprised how quick 3 222s can focus down a squad and just how much mobility this strat provided. And from first hand knowledge I think I'm right to be concerned about what they could do without their cost being adjusted a little.
210mp x 3 is 630 mp. Thats the cost of a tiger mp wise. 222s can't cap ---> little map control ----> faster enemy armor. This strat has its set backs. You have to be super aggressive with them to make sure the enemy isn't getting all that munis for mines and fuel for vehicles.
I think brits will be the only ones with serious problems. They already lack capping power and have no snares. Fix this by giving tommies snares.
19 Feb 2016, 21:36 PM
#16
Posts: 295 | Subs: 1
I don't want to be one of those players claiming OP before patch is out. Hell I have suggested 222 buffs in multiple threads.
But multiple 222s is one of my favorite wher strats, and it was always underrated. You'd be suprised how quick 3 222s can focus down a squad and just how much mobility this strat provided. And from first hand knowledge I think I'm right to be concerned about what they could do without their cost being adjusted a little.
How excacly you are suggesting to adjust cost? Make it cost 20 fuel? At very least for M20 20 fuel you get
1) Ability to repair it anywhere on the field
2) Ability to lay immobolizing mines (which no-one use for some reason)
3) You have don-doc smoke on it
4) Crew has free zooks
5) Its much less vulnerable to small arms fire
6) Also ability to cap points, by de-crewing it
What you dont get with it:
Ability to fight light armor
What 222 has:
1) Better sight range with vet
2) Ability to fight light armor, on paper, but usually its good only for "finishing" enemy light armor.
3) Ability to shoot down planes (but this is different problem, which should be fixed)
^ thats it.
So again how this HP buff making 222 cost more then 15 fuel?
19 Feb 2016, 21:38 PM
#17
5 Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2
1. Building 222s can also start much earlier. As long as the player doesn't wait, they could build 3 222s before anything but a m20 and AEC.
2. The same could be said about all light vehicles. 222s do have late game versitility as a scout though if they attain vet.
3. Only if they tech correctly. If they go tier 1 or liutenant odds are they likely won't be able to accumulate enough ammo for nades an zooks to counter 2-3 222s whose combined health is now 640-960.
I was just mentioning that these are worth keeping in mind. Its easy to list bullet points on the forums when you can judge a game in a vacuum.
Soviets can easily tech AT nades to keep the 222 in check, any T3 vehicle will wreck it, and they have easy access to guards.
USF has access to Anti-Tank grenades at vet 1 on their rifles, and captain tech will easily handle a couple of 222s.
The Brits admittedly have less tools to deal with it, which is why I mentioned that in my original post.
Let's play it out before we make any assumptions. On paper I like the change, but just like after every patch we'll have to let the top players figure it out before we can come to any real conclusions.
19 Feb 2016, 21:41 PM
#18
Posts: 2561
Well hopefully Relic knows what they are doing. But I know my build first game of the new patch
MG>pio>MG>pio
Secure fuel, quick quick tech to T2, then
222>222>222>pgren>pgren
and then use all my munitions on mines, maybe a bunker or two
I'm sure I could wipe a couple of squads on the retreat before they even realize what's happening. And all those mines will help secure my territory while my 222s and pgrens create a highly mobile death squad.
MG>pio>MG>pio
Secure fuel, quick quick tech to T2, then
222>222>222>pgren>pgren
and then use all my munitions on mines, maybe a bunker or two
I'm sure I could wipe a couple of squads on the retreat before they even realize what's happening. And all those mines will help secure my territory while my 222s and pgrens create a highly mobile death squad.
19 Feb 2016, 22:17 PM
#19
Posts: 794
Starting "balance concern" threads 1 week before the patch goes live. That's a record.
19 Feb 2016, 23:24 PM
#20
1 Posts: 1276
You guys are missing his point, hes saying look at unit stats vs price and compare M20 vs 222. 222 > unit by its stats and versatility
Honestly USF tech needs looked at not the units. Thats the real issue
Honestly USF tech needs looked at not the units. Thats the real issue
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