New commander ability - Counter barage

2-3 volks and a pair of puppchens vs bofors, not blobbed, volks draw fire, puppchens on stealth approach from another angle for surprise burst, shrecks alone are enough vs anything else.
Pressuring mortar pit with constant ISG barrage as OKW.

As Ost, MHT is potent with incendiary barrage, if carelessly parked, use PaKs, if hidden, shreck PGs are enough. Obviously there is gren cover for PGs as Ost.

You want to attack when you pushed off tommies or when they are on another part of the map, you don't want to fight tommies AND emplacements at the same time, lone vickers can be dealt with wide approach.

So what I hear from you, the OKW counters the 280mp 30 fuel unit with 1080 MP and 270 munitions and only if their are no enemy units defending it.

That or leig must constantly barrage it and hope it doesn't get targeted by the pit itself. Hope the enemy doesn't repair it or use brace or attack your leig with infantry. Hmmmk.

As Ost you need 1 of 2 commanders with MHT, or pak (which can be bombed or enemy use brace) , or 580mp of infantry and 120 munis in which case the enemy can STILL brace and wait for support (or target and wipe the pgrens). Once again we have to hope that these units have no supporting units. Ok.


That's the costs POV, now let's look at the micro POV. Axis players have to micro multiple units to not lose any, attack when the enemy isn't there, and have the perfect army composition for the assault. The British player on the other hand, can watch as his emplacements do all the work needed and brace when it's getting low and needs support.

Trying to be realistic here. I feel like the counter to these emplacements require a ton more micro, resources and luck that it does to use them effectively.

Those are my thoughts.

So what I hear from you, the OKW counters the 280mp 30 fuel unit with 1080 MP and 270 munitions and only if their are no enemy units defending it.

Hey, guess what?
That is a total of 0 additional units you will have to make on top of most standard BOs!

Plus, I want to destroy it QUICKLY, before opponent has a chance to react, I don't need to get it to half health and be chased off only for it to get repaired with additional vet star.

That or leig must constantly barrage it and hope it doesn't get targeted by the pit itself. Hope the enemy doesn't repair it or use brace or attack your leig with infantry. Hmmmk.

Or you can just rush shrecks at the pit if there is no bofors. If there is, you can position and focus on bofors, keeping LEIGs safe. And pit will rarely be placed so it can effectively cover bofors as it would require you to place it right next to bofors, not behind, next to it.

As Ost you need 1 of 2 commanders with MHT, or pak (which can be bombed or enemy use brace) , or 580mp of infantry and 120 munis in which case the enemy can STILL brace and wait for support (or target and wipe the pgrens). Once again we have to hope that these units have no supporting units. Ok.

MHT is not mandatory, it just makes it super easy.
I don't like to bash my head against the wall and ost isn't really doctrine dependent. Oh and it just happens that one of these MHT commanders has a tiger tank.
I've already covered the support part, I'm not going to repeat myself just because someone has mastered selective reading skill.

That's the costs POV, now let's look at the micro POV. Axis players have to micro multiple units to not lose any, attack when the enemy isn't there, and have the perfect army composition for the assault. The British player on the other hand, can watch as his emplacements do all the work needed and brace when it's getting low and needs support.

Trying to be realistic here. I feel like the counter to these emplacements require a ton more micro, resources and luck that it does to use them effectively.

Those are my thoughts.

As I've said, you're paying a grand total of ZERO in addition to what you have as standard army as OKW and for ost, only MHT is optional. I always get 1 PG squad, regardless and it ends up being AT usually, so again, only MHT is additional side cost, which makes it piece of cake.

Your costs POV is horribly biased, because you completely ignore what you already have on the field as standard units.

I'm simply using units, which I will have at the time.
Again, ZERO additional costs for OKW and optional MHT for ost.

Hey, guess what?
That is a total of 0 additional units you will have to make on top of most standard BOs!

Plus, I want to destroy it QUICKLY, before opponent has a chance to react, I don't need to get it to half health and be chased off only for it to get repaired with additional vet star.


Or you can just rush shrecks at the pit if there is no bofors. If there is, you can position and focus on bofors, keeping LEIGs safe. And pit will rarely be placed so it can effectively cover bofors as it would require you to place it right next to bofors, not behind, next to it.


MHT is not mandatory, it just makes it super easy.
I don't like to bash my head against the wall and ost isn't really doctrine dependent. Oh and it just happens that one of these MHT commanders has a tiger tank.
I've already covered the support part, I'm not going to repeat myself just because someone has mastered selective reading skill.




As I've said, you're paying a grand total of ZERO in addition to what you have as standard army as OKW and for ost, only MHT is optional. I always get 1 PG squad, regardless and it ends up being AT usually, so again, only MHT is additional side cost, which makes it piece of cake.

Your costs POV is horribly biased, because you completely ignore what you already have on the field as standard units.

I'm simply using units, which I will have at the time.
Again, ZERO additional costs for OKW and optional MHT for ost.

You need all those units just to counter 2 of his. If you add his other units, then you need more of yours to counter.

Your costs POV is horribly biased, because you completely ignore what you already have on the field as standard units.

Ok now lets add in all the rest of his "standard units". He's guarding his emplacements with a single mg that now stops your pgrens/grens idea (you can't flank with his bofors nearby), his mortar stops your pak, you don't have Spearhead or Festung Support, what do you use? According to you, indirect isn't an option.


My point is, you need to get your entire army right up against his emplacements to start hurting it and he can brace to take away any element of surprise. Again, you need a ton of luck and very lazy enemy to counter Bofors+Pit combo. He does virtually nothing.


I want to find out where we agree and disagree.

Edit:
I think best way to counter it is with double mortars. Reposition them if need be,and hope for no insta wipes. Your mortars will vet up fast too.

Other option (if the map is big enough) is ignore it if its not in such an important position.

That or leig must constantly barrage it and hope it doesn't get targeted by the pit itself. Hope the enemy doesn't repair it or use brace or attack your leig with infantry. Hmmmk.

LeIG is all you ever need and it doesn't need a lot of micro. In addition LeIg is cheaper than pit and bofors and very useful versus vickers and tommies defending in cover too. Constantly shell pits/bofors with LeIG barrage ability and keep Sappers away from repairing by doing so. If you loose crew models refresh at your FRP that shouldn't be far away. And if he attacks you with infantry: Tommies are horrible on the attack, brits have the worst mainline infantry to lay hand on your LeiGs of all factions. After you repeled them with your own infantry chances to kill pits with your infantry are better than ever. Really brits can't do much about this tactic, thats the reason they get a dlc commander with land mattress.

Ost has problems with pits and bofors if you don't go for MHT.

Yeah, I did, so I'd say we can argue that it counters it and doesn't, depending on the state of brace at the time.

???????? what the fuck is your definition of countering? with the lefh youre forcing the brit player to do an action that he doesnt necessarily want to do or else hes going to lose his investment. if thats not what the definition of countering is i dont know what is.

???????? what the fuck is your definition of countering? with the lefh youre forcing the brit player to do an action that he doesnt necessarily want to do or else hes going to lose his investment. if thats not what the definition of countering is i dont know what is.

In emplacements case?
Its pretty much destroying.

If you're forcing him to brace, you're forcing him to do something he doesn't want to as you've said, but you also create an opening for yourself to kill it 30 secs later.

I cant say I disagree all I should need to take out a boffers is a Gren squad, hell maybe even just 2 models because having to commit an assault to a defensive position that ties up resources in a single area and cant contribute to anywhere else in the map is clearly IMBA. I mean sure I could ignore it until I can hit it with armour and instead focus on his smaller mobile force using my slightly superior force to make him bleed but that means changing my tactics and wheres the fun in that.... But seriously every gun delays his armour...

It's the same thing as the Ostheer's Lefh & mortor with counter barrage. No complaints about those.

^This.

^This.

One of them is free

Trying to be realistic here. I feel like the counter to these emplacements require a ton more micro, resources and luck that it does to use them effectively.

Thats the very Nature of emplacements, they require unpropertional more effort to Detroy than to build and maintain. Thats why most of the Ccommunity consider them as cancerous, lame, anti-fun, Dull etc

One of them is free

Which is free? The non doc one or the doc locked one? Cause.... like the lefh needs a certain doctrine AND vet and the Brit one means no croc AND no reinforcement (didnt actually watcu stream I think I read That? At the very least it means no OP sexton spam right?)

I feel luke actually requiring some input to counter is the trade off for being static and se even costing fuel/ delaying tanks ( this includes the okw flak to a much much lesser extent as they need a huge reliability buff...)

Yes that's what the Designer thought but ingame the static thing isnt a huge drawback since you can cover atleast 2 very important points on map which creates a nogo Zone For the enemy because he will lose all fights there. And yes fuel cost is a thing true, but my biggest concern is the mortar pit which is quite cheap ( 2 mortars for 400mp) bofors and 17pdr (lol never see it ingame , thank god for that) are kinda balanced through fuel cost anf lock out of tech decisions.

Tlr remove mortar pit & give them mobile mortar PLS

How is it going to be a Defensive-themed faction with a Mobile Mortar? It'll just end up like OKW, as an aggressive faction. Emplacements complement the idea of a slow, strong defensive faction.

Yes that's what the Designer thought but ingame the static thing isnt a huge drawback since you can cover atleast 2 very important points on map which creates a nogo Zone For the enemy because he will lose all fights there. And yes fuel cost is a thing true, but my biggest concern is the mortar pit which is quite cheap ( 2 mortars for 400mp) bofors and 17pdr (lol never see it ingame , thank god for that) are kinda balanced through fuel cost anf lock out of tech decisions.

Tlr remove mortar pit & give them mobile mortar PLS

Its what. 400 mp for a mortar pit? That aint cheap... A shock squad is cheaper...my only issue is that the Wehr mortar (in my experience) doesnt have enough damage/ misses too God damn much to dissuade could construction of a pit.- I mean a single mortar that doesnt suck RNGesus' dick just right to wipe the sapper squad wont deal enough damage to kill a building pit, which as its in range to barrage it is INSTANTLY countered by the pit (moreso if the sappers garrison it) thats a bit silly imo..... 17 pounder is also fine imo its like a pak 43 but worse in everyay but survivalat the cost of 70(!!!!) fuel... Oh and 1/5 of your pop cap....

How is it going to be a Defensive-themed faction with a Mobile Mortar? It'll just end up like OKW, as an aggressive faction. Emplacements complement the idea of as
low, strong defensive faction.

Sorry that doesnt make sense. Ostheer has a mobile mortar too, and is still a slow defensive faction. How is a mobile mortar SUDDENLY Tommies charge, vickers a-moving and royal egineers flanking? I cant see a relation between them.
Inb4 mobil mortar soften up defensive lines, good that's what they too you still wont be able to play super aggressive due the the Nature of brit units...maybe you want to keep your previous cancer pit?

Its what. 400 mp for a mortar pit? That aint cheap... A shock squad is cheaper...my only issue is that the Wehr mortar (in my experience) doesnt have enough damage/ misses too God damn much to dissuade could construction of a pit.- I mean a single mortar that doesnt suck RNGesus' dick just right to wipe the sapper squad wont deal enough damage to kill a building pit, which as its in range to barrage it is INSTANTLY countered by the pit (moreso if the sappers garrison it) thats a bit silly imo..... 17 pounder is also fine imo its like a pak 43 but worse in everyay but survivalat the cost of 70(!!!!) fuel... Oh and 1/5 of your pop cap....

Keep in mind you get 2 mortars for 400mp, makes 200mp a mortar which is a reasonable price.

Sorry that doesnt make sense. Ostheer has a mobile mortar too, and is still a slow defensive faction. How is a mobile mortar SUDDENLY Tommies charge, vickers a-moving and royal egineers flanking? I cant see a relation between them.
Inb4 mobil mortar soften up defensive lines, good that's what they too you still wont be able to play super aggressive due the the Nature of brit units...maybe you want to keep your previous cancer pit?

I just would rather have faction diversity in terms of play style, and not have British Forces turn into a hyper-aggressive faction like the axis factions.

Which is free? The non doc one or the doc locked one? Cause.... like the lefh needs a certain doctrine AND vet and the Brit one means no croc AND no reinforcement (didnt actually watcu stream I think I read That? At the very least it means no OP sexton spam right?)

Saying you don't get crocs is like saying I can't get tigers if I get lefHs.

Counter barrage costs zero munis fuel and or manpower to use. Besides, Brits in 2v2+ often get forward assembly to reinforce from anyways.

Thats the very Nature of emplacements, they require unpropertional more effort to Detroy than to build and maintain. Thats why most of the Ccommunity consider them as cancerous, lame, anti-fun, Dull etc

Agreeed