Sturmpioneers 'as it is' need to be removed from the game

Can't seem to add my Steam numbers nor my Steam name VOV

Anywho, are Maxim spamming still a thing? I've played for months and I've only seen it once (a year ago, yes Maxim spams were more common). The reason why I, my friend, and probably others dont do it is because the Maxim is just inferior in every sense with the exception being the deployment time.

The firing arc is much much narrower, the 6 men crew have less health which means you'll get more 'interrupts' where the Maxim user is killed and the next crewman gets onto the MG but he'll probably get killed before he can fire or even retreat, so the next crewman comes in and etc.

Yes, the deployment time is faster but it's much easier to outflank a narrow-arc-firing maxim than a MG42. Plus, Grenadiers have freaking Rifle Grenades that fire from afar.

Ostheer requiring the most micro? Really? Well, certainly more micro than OKW :V But you have units like the MG42 which covers such a wide arc, is buildable in the very first building (why, Relic?) and apparently is only 240 Manpower compared to say, the inferior 50 Cal MG team, which can handle themselves pretty well. Not to mention those bunkers that keep you on the frontlines with the Reinforce/Healing upgrades or protecting points and flanks with the MG upgrade.

Ostheer also have the best AT gun in the game, which already penetrates most vehicles, has a long range, fires at a faster rate than the ZIS, and also can stun vehicles.

The G43 upgrade is really significant, Ostruppen spam is quite deadly given that they also have Panzerfausts, and I lol when I hear people complain that the PZ Grenadier is underpowered (yes, 2 Shreks + already effective STGs)

And Ostheer tanks, like the OKW's, is already well rounded in having great guns, great speed, and great armor. And there's a loooooot of Tiger commander users. And the Panzerwerfer is probably the best default (non-commander) artillery unit.

Yes, with infantry (save for the Ostruppen) you probably will have to be more careful with losses so I suppose there is a level of micro there. But again, Ostheer have units like tanks that require less micro to handle whereas a Soviet player will need to micro more tanks/infantry to take out a Panther.

Controlling 2 T34s is far more demanding than controlling 1 Panther.

I still stand by my belief that playing Soviets and USF is far more micro-intensive due to having to control more and (arguably) inferior units. I don't know much about the Brits but I will say from my experience: USF/Soviets<--Wehrmacht<-----OKW

My only concession from all of this is yes, losses do matter more as Ostheer which is micro-related.

Oh, smoke and flank. I already do that with MG42s. It is annoying that while Axis get their grenades no matter what (linear progression), USF and the others have to purchase grenades which for the USF, is the only way of flushing MGs out :/

i respect that you wrote such an long and detailed post, kudos for that but i am really afraid that most points dont make any sense at "higher" level of play (im bad at this game, but for for the sole reason of maxims spam is sooo effective while requiring so less micro i got to rank 150 with soviets in 1v1) or the bunkers, which rarely used in higher levels of play because they die so easily and you actual sacrfrice map presence for it.
things can be different if you are a 3v3, 4v4 player but these modes dont matter at much at balance because its much more about teamcomposition (factions synergy, individual skill of players)

and for me it seems like you dont play ostheer much, otherwise you would understand why they need so much micro to be effective, they are all about combined arms and dare you if you lose a squad or missplay once and get thrown off the field completly. oh and that 4man mainline infantry is a hell to babysit mid-lategame, they get wiped SO EASILY. if you watch "pro" streams or tournaments game you see them wiped quite often, in contrary to riflmens, tommies or concscripts which are really rarely lost at higher level of plays.

The problem here are buildings in general, they have way too much impact in the game early on regardless of what unit is inside it.

Yes, that is absolutely not exclusive to Sturms. At least their far DPS is non-existant so you can attack them from afar with impunity if they are holed up in a structure.

Several other units are even more annoying in buildings, such as rifles, Maxims, tommies, Vickers, MG42 if supported a bit, upgraded grens, or heck even Volks thanks to their early game durability. I completely agree that early game play very often revolves too much around garrisons. But so long as they are nigh on impervious to small arms apart from a big blob, it's going to stay that way.

I will pay to see commandos or jesus troopers get beaten in a fair skirmish with sturms

Ostheer requiring the most micro? Really? Well, certainly more micro than OKW :V But you have units like the MG42 which covers such a wide arc, is buildable in the very first building (why, Relic?) and apparently is only 240 Manpower compared to say, the inferior 50 Cal MG team, which can handle themselves pretty well. Not to mention those bunkers that keep you on the frontlines with the Reinforce/Healing upgrades or protecting points and flanks with the MG upgrade.

:/

1. The UKF get a MG from their first building.
2. If you were to get rid of it you would have to replace it with grenadiers.

I think the most unfair advantage they have is the ability to win any early game 1v1 fight if used correctly. While the kubel back caps the map.

I think the most unfair advantage they have is the ability to win any early game 1v1 fight if used correctly. While the kubel back caps the map.

Exactly.

1. Playercard

2. Stop talking trash

1. Playercard

2. Stop talking trash

Requests playercard, plays axis/okw only

Sturms are pretty fine though IMO, but OKW could just start with a volks squad too.

Requests playercard, plays axis/okw only

at least i know my faction

does sturmpionners still have 9 popcap..?? if yes then plz make it 7.

I think the most unfair advantage they have is the ability to win any early game 1v1 fight if used correctly. While the kubel back caps the map.

That's why I like the Kubel as a starting unit rather than SP. OKW chooses to back cap OR cutoff. At the Allied cutoff fuel, the USF RE faces a Kubel, which it can hold it's own against. By the time the SP shows up at the cutoff, the Rifles will be there, making the fight more "fair". Both sides are vying for the one fuel, neither gets it uncontested. If OKW chooses fuel first, the RE & Rifle can easily handle one SP, so USF get a fuel, too.

As it is currently, RE can't hold a candle to SP, even when the RE is in a building. And, as you said, the Kubel is capping everything while USF is looking for scraps.

Just while we're in the thread, what's the counter to Sturmpioneer flamer builds? I faced it the other day in a 2v2, never even encountered the flame doctrine before. We had both fuels on Moscow Outskirts for the first few minutes, we were like "woah this is easy" then suddenly they popped flamers and uprooted all of our defensive positions (double brit) + wrecked the mortar pit that I had just built in seconds.

Then they built 3x raketen to snipe the first cromwell we built with our accelerated fuel in one nanosecond.

Maybe it was just bad luck but holy shit I haven't got facerolled after such a strong start ever before.

Just while we're in the thread, what's the counter to Sturmpioneer flamer builds? I faced it the other day in a 2v2, never even encountered the flame doctrine before. We had both fuels on Moscow Outskirts for the first few minutes, we were like "woah this is easy" then suddenly they popped flamers and uprooted all of our defensive positions (double brit) + wrecked the mortar pit that I had just built in seconds.

Then they built 3x raketen to snipe the first cromwell we built with our accelerated fuel in one nanosecond.

Maybe it was just bad luck but holy shit I haven't got facerolled after such a strong start ever before.

I would try a bofors when in defence, it can protect your mortars. For offensive I can't think of anything but waiting for heavier stuff.

They're pretty much OK alone, problem comes when they rush your fuel point while their kubel captures their. This could be prevented by not making them a starting unit. Also their mid-range DPS is quite too big, supposed to be in line with sten guns and mp40s, but a lot better...
They surely don't need to be completely reworked, however

I'd rather volks starter unit, that makes sense, no?

You have to choose between an early kubel for back cap or a sturm for early game power as your first unit.

no reason not to build kubel first because the sturm can fight any first unit while the kubel back caps. Then bring out volks for reinforcements and so on.

You know OKW isn't even suppose to have a good early game, they're advertised as a late game faction with two non doctrine heavy tanks, non doctrine elite infantry, precise rocket artillery and trucks that allow for okw to spend their resources elsewhere. Every other faction needs to forgo frontline infantry for engineers to repair tanks but okw don't have to build sturms as they can just drive their tanks up to the repair station

bananenheld cool the fuck down dude lol. Super Bumble B only started playing this game let him get into it.

Sturms + Kubel are fine because okw lategame is pathetic, they can't fight armor and their infantry is only good at medium to close range. Thank god because if not the only way to beat them would be to spam machineguns. Off topic lol

TL;DR OKW gets the best super early game because their teching is expensive, faction is an early game rush faction focused on speed, and has a poor lategame without commanders. So, l2p.

bananenheld cool the fuck down dude lol. Super Bumble B only started playing this game let him get into it.

Better Jump instantly into the balance section then.. but you are right we need every Player we can get,sorry..

bananenheld cool the fuck down dude lol. Super Bumble B only started playing this game let him get into it.

Well, when someone just started playing the game, his forum destination should be strategic sub forum and he should stay as far from balance subforum as possible for first couple of months.