panzergrenadier and the schreck upgrade

Its a 4 man squad with expensive reinforce and a 120 muni upgrade, it should be very effective against paper vehicles.

Infantry wreck them, smoke blocks los

Yeah, the only USF light that really gets anywhere near close to invalidated is M20s which are still pretty useful when dodging the 340 MP 120 muni squads that the enemy can't have a ton of quickly, and it's not only light that gets to be a waste of time in combat when good AT rolls anyway (the mines it has give it one of the best chance out of light vehicles to not become useless, too).

And WC-51s but most of us have forgotten their existence anyway so most won't mind.

PGrens were OP with single shreck Kappa

Just buff PzGren shrek accuracy

just increasing the accuracy of the dual would make them overpowered against medium.

just increasing the accuracy of the dual would make them overpowered against medium.

Damage down to 100 from 120?

Its a 4 man squad with expensive reinforce and a 120 muni upgrade, it should be very effective against paper vehicles.

Infantry wreck them, smoke blocks los

Coincidentally that would stop double Schrecks from one-shotting M20s as well.

Damage down to 100 from 120?

I doubt it's going to be enough. A schreck accurate enough to hit light vehicle will be accurate enough to hit medium tank. The schreck also have enough penetration to pen medium tank most of the time.

pgren blobs with 3x MP44 and 1 schreck would be massively OP anti everything squads. it would be an expensive version of volks with more damage.

Yea a blob of 340manpower 4-models squads with 120munition sinken on each of them (are they 32mp to reinforce ?).
Wonder when the opponent went afk in that game

noob here.....I remember that pgrens got two shrecks coz they were OP with great AI and AT capabilities at once....of course, lot of things have changed since that time, but, in my opinion pgrens are fine, and for sure they are not broken, so in my opinion it could be better if we fix units that are problematic first, then, we can fine-tunning units like those pgrens...

it has been said here lot of times that something that is not broken doesn´t need to be fixed....in this case, I agree with this statment.

just my noob opinion.

During alpha players complained that Pgrens still had to much AI dps with only 1 shreck.

Problem was that shreck back then had an AoE of 2,5 which was the main reason why the AI was still so high vs inf. So Relic changed it to dual shrecks which didnt realy solve the problem then they nerfed the AoE of the Shreck to 0,5.

Overall Pgrens changed alot back in alpha they were like no doc Shock troopers and could easy 1v1. One schreck for maybe even 70 mun wouldn't be so bad on them imo.

Yea a blob of 340manpower 4-models squads with 120munition sinken on each of them (are they 32mp to reinforce ?).
Wonder when the opponent went afk in that game

are you responding to me?

are you responding to me?

Nope since I know you barely play the game at all and thus cant make any Statement on balance except some forum warriorish theorycrafting.

If you give pgrens only one schreck we get a generalist unit wich we dont want(shrecked volks).

The reasoning behind why a single Schreck purchase was removed - as correctly stated by persons in this thread - was that the Panzergrenadiers were a solid all-around squad with good anti-infantry damage.

However, this was way, way back, as in, before the game's release. It is a completely different game right now. I don't think people realize how much this game has fundamentally changed over the years.

I think the game would benefit from single-schreck panzergrenadiers. Thinking they will magically break the game because of something that was true 3 years ago? Next you will mention how you have difficulty countering Snipers in an m3.

The reasoning behind why a single Schreck purchase was removed - as correctly stated by persons in this thread - was that the Panzergrenadiers were a solid all-around squad with good anti-infantry damage.

However, this was way, way back, as in, before the game's release. It is a completely different game right now. I don't think people realize how much this game has fundamentally changed over the years.

I think the game would benefit from single-schreck panzergrenadiers. Thinking they will magically break the game because of something that was true 3 years ago? Next you will mention how you have difficulty countering Snipers in an m3.

Volksgrens example pretty much proves that it still is a dreadful idea.

Pgrens will NOT have single shreck-ever.

Their dual shreck is a role changer for them, from AI to AT, they will NOT be jack of all trades.
They can perform 2 roles, but they will NOT do it on a single squad.

There is no benefit to single shreck and there is a lot of potential for another tumor to pop up in gameplay.

Volksgrens example pretty much proves that it still is a dreadful idea.

I have to disagree, and it's not even a secret I hate Volks spam with a passion.

The two are completely different units. Panzergrenadiers are much more expensive to field and maintain, are squishier, and also do not have the benefit of forward retreat points + healing.

I understand that people are trying to avoid generalist units but I think it is the Volks cancer clouding people's senses.

Wehrmacht has a completely different dynamic and it seems to me there is nothing wrong with the concept of generalist units.What is wrong with generalists, as long as they are not OP? A Panzer IV is a very good generalist tank, and the game is no worse for it. In fact, its same tier has a specialist AT and specialist AI and yet they are pretty much all useful units, I field all three depending on the situation.

When I lose 3 models from pzgrens and they drop a single Schreck we get such a situation. And yet somehow I don't catch myself going "oh man time to lord it over the map with an uber potent squad".

There is no benefit to single shreck and there is a lot of potential for another tumor to pop up in gameplay.

Multiple doubleschreck Panzergrenadier blobs that roams the map like a tank terror mob (pardon the pun) and relies on alpha strike damage is also a tumor, so we'd be rooting out an existing one.

I have to disagree, and it's not even a secret I hate Volks spam with a passion.

The two are completely different units. Panzergrenadiers are much more expensive to field and maintain, are squishier, and also do not have the benefit of forward retreat points + healing.

Vet bonuses and last years reinforce changes together with their base rec acc and potent weapons says no.
You're talking about old PGs, which had greater reinforce cost and greater production cost. This things have changed, PGs aren't as hard to maintain as they used to be.

I understand that people are trying to avoid generalist units but I think it is the Volks cancer clouding people's senses.

Nothing to cloud here. Implications are obvious. This is a no-no idea.

Wehrmacht has a completely different dynamic and it seems to me there is nothing wrong with the concept of generalist units.What is wrong with generalists, as long as they are not OP? A Panzer IV is a very good generalist tank, and the game is no worse for it. In fact, its same tier has a specialist AT and specialist AI and yet they are pretty much all useful units, I field all three depending on the situation.

Yes, they have completely different dynamic. Their dynamic is to have adaptable specialists, NOT generalists. You need AI, get grens or pgrens. You need AT, get PaK or buy shrecks.
You can have both AI and AT, but NOT on the same unit. Don't fix what isn't broken.

When I lose 3 models from pzgrens and they drop a single Schreck we get such a situation. And yet somehow I don't catch myself going "oh man time to lord it over the map with an uber potent squad".

Because you have only a single squad like that.
Not 3 or 5.

Want me to explain difference in units impact based on units quantity using heavy tanks as example?

Multiple doubleschreck Panzergrenadier blobs that roams the map like a tank terror mob (pardon the pun) and relies on alpha strike damage is also a tumor, so we'd be rooting out an existing one.

And they're rolled over by infantry. With the change, no longer the case.

Game has changed and evolved since coh1/coh2 early days. I think having the upgrade to 1 is a safe bet. Not to mention it wouldnt be the new OH blob, due to price, and 4 man squads. It's no different then the change most want to OKW

They were expensive in beta too yet back then everything-obliterating-PGren blobs were actually quite meta.

They were expensive in beta too yet back then everything-obliterating-PGren blobs were actually quite meta.

I think that's because back then they were only fighting cons, frog positioned guards, and shocks. Now they have to fight rifles, rangers, IS, and commandos. Nobody had FRPs back when the game was released but now it's different. Rocket artillery wasn't as good back then either. Surivability of a 4 man squad with high reinforce cost is not good. Imagine volks going down to 4 man squads with 30 reinforce... too difficult to maintain and you wouldn't see as many volks squads without heavy MP bleed.

PZgrens with 1 shrek would be nice for 1v1 and 2v2, but 3v3 and 4v4 i can see it being spammed, blobbed and counter everything