M36 Jackson

Compare jackson to SU-85 Its actually a great TD, would say the best one if comet wasn't better. Maybe we are just simply spoiled with ukf tanks now?

You nasty old troll

kek lol

keep in mind tho that you need to nerf to the usf early game if you buff the mid-lategame, because usf isnt in a bad spot right now at all. if you buff mid-late and leave early game it will make them stronger than their counterparts.

but i never see a jackson to be honest..

+1. This is what I really want with US. Strong early and weak late make faction only viable at 1v1.

Early nerf and late buff for US is essential.



After Calliope nerf, USF will disappear from large team matches, just like before.

Mmmm, I feel everyone has valid points here. I personally think the M36 is alright. Disappointed at the occasional bounces off heavy/med-heavy armor but they're still really good.

If i remember correctly, they used to do more damage but less penetration which caused even more deflections.

Maybe a small bonus to pen against heavy armors would do the job.
I feel this wasn't as big of an issue in the past because volks blob was harder to maintain until 100% resource. That's usually their biggest weakness and super TDs. But elephants and JTs are supposed to counter them so I think it's fine. USF's weakness was lack of reliable arty until CalliOP came about. Instead of fixing m8a1 howitzer and major's arty, they just gave a payable commander to overbalance USF's weakness.

Sorry for the long message. I just kept typing what I thought about it

+1. This is what I really want with US. Strong early and weak late make faction only viable at 1v1.

Early nerf and late buff for US is essential.



After Calliope nerf, USF will disappear from large team matches, just like before.

And this is ok when OKW is stronk in early mid and late game

Hate that shitty saying -rifles are so strong so usf dont need late game

All factions deserve for something in any stage of game lol

And this is ok when OKW is stronk in early mid and late game

Hate that shitty saying -rifles are so strong so usf dont need late game

All factions deserve for something in any stage of game lol

then ostheer desperatly needs something for the "light vehicle" stage of the game before usf gets touched, or tell me how many ostheer players did you see in 1v1 in the past days ?

I think that jackson could use a range buff

or revert the range buff on the heavy tanks. They didn't need the buff to begin with.

I disagree strongly. The penetration does not reliably penetrate Panthers, and the Jackson is a TD dependent on scaring away its victims since any unit that close with it will beat it. This on top of the fact that it has 0 AI ability so it has to be amazing at its one job.

bouncing shot is kind of the panther and tiger's trick. the heavy tanks shouldn't have gotten a range buff to begin with.


Lower the jackson's pop cost to 12. Its pop cost shouldn't be higher than the panzer 4 and be the same as the superior jp4.

also, buff the US 57mm. it's a pop gun compared to the atg everyone else uses. The higher rof on 57mm does nothing at all. Even the multi-role zis 76 is more reliable in terms of at. The raketen managed to be more effective at AT and still cost the same.

keep in mind tho that you need to nerf to the usf early game if you buff the mid-lategame, because usf isnt in a bad spot right now at all. if you buff mid-late and leave early game it will make them stronger than their counterparts.

but i never see a jackson to be honest..

at this point it's easier to buff the ost early game to match the other 4 faction. Specifically, the ost need better anti-vehicle option.

As with every thread about US TDs, I am going to state that the jackson should have been replaced with the M10 and been a 70 range heavy TD for USF.

But honestly the jackson is fine in current balance. Two of them can handle just about any armor your opponent can send at you. It's can just be a bit hard to use, given it's health. It pen and damage is great and as long as you can micro it, it can take down every tank in the game. Only thing it struggles with is jagdpanzers and jagdtigers which are things it shouldn't rally be countering anyway. Also don't forget to use it's vet 1 ability, 40 extra damage and lots more pen will make even a KT think twice.

What really does need to happen is for all the doctrinal recon passes to be changed to loiters as this would really help jackson play in some doctrines since they can't actually spot for themselves.

I'd say the US AT gun needs buffs before the jackson.

Only thing it struggles with is jagdpanzers and jagdtigers which are things it shouldn't rally be countering anyway. Also don't forget to use it's vet 1 ability, 40 extra damage and lots more pen will make even a KT think twice.

Enlighten us how to counter those 2 units with USF!

Enlighten us how to counter those 2 units with USF!

Jagdpanzers can be countered with zooks, and at guns. Your probably even better off with shermans vs them as they actually have the health to actually attempt a flank.

Jagdtigers and Elephants though are bullshit units. There really isn't any counters to them at all, you just have to hope they aren't well supported so you can overwhem them. But if they did have counters it shouldn't be jacksons, but zooks and artillery.

The only problem jackson has is that it's a light crusher (cant crush fences n stuff) Performance is totally fine.

Remember guys. As with any US armor, the Jackson's potentially is 100% reliant on the number of rifles in front of it.

Jagdpanzers can be countered with zooks, and at guns. Your probably even better off with shermans vs them as they actually have the health to actually attempt a flank.

Jagdtigers and Elephants though are bullshit units. There really isn't any counters to them at all, you just have to hope they aren't well supported so you can overwhem them. But if they did have counters it shouldn't be jacksons, but zooks and artillery.

I hope you aren't serious about Bazookas.

I actually prefer when my opponents spam Calliops instead of Jacksons, I never managed to find a way to counter 3x of these. Perhaps I rely on Panthers too much..

I hope you aren't serious about Bazookas.

bazookas got a huge buff. there was a thread in which someone tested bazooka vs panther and shreks versus sherman etc, you wouldnt believe the result.

I hope you aren't serious about Bazookas.

I play USF 90% of the time. No one is a bigger USF fanboy then me.

I am well aware of the limitations of zooks, but they can get the job done in the right situation. A surprise zook flank + plus an AT rifle nade will leave a jagpanzer crippled. If your opponent can't force you away in time or you follow up with an armored push, you can definitely take out a jagpanzer. The fast reload of the bazooka shouldn't be discounted and they can do a lot of damage vs a engine damaged tank that can't escape.

I hope you aren't serious about Bazookas.

Seeing you play 3v3s and 4v4s I'm not sure how this works in those teams as it does for me in 2v2s but blah blah blah but really I find bazooka's do decently in four or so with RE due to deflection damage enough for rifle grenade. Once the damage engine you can call in artillery (fast ones if available), P-47 rocket strike, anything that force them to move in another direction or tank it. Again I don't know how this would work in 3v3s and up but considering your rank you know what you're doing.

Back on Topic: A Jackson has a 60% chance to penetrate a panther frontally at long range if these stats are correct from stat.coh2 has anything to attest too. Two Jacksons can easily harass it off the field and it doesn't matter if it just scares them away as their losing more resources (this is even with one Jackson) by their tank doing nothing besides being repaired all the time in the back. On 57mm its fine due to cheap cost as being 270 you can spam two or more and with that many there's a decent chance to get some rounds through. Also the damage means a Jackson will need 4 (200 dps) shots to take out a Panther with normal AP rounds and 4 (240 dps) with HVAP rounds (same amount of rounds but at a greater amount of damage so any other damage such as deflection, AT grenades, etc can take out the sliver of HP)

I hope you aren't serious about Bazookas.

They have their uses tho, biggest downside so far is to need to unlock them. When i play calliopes without t3, i go double at guns bazookas double rears, they handle armor shot of kt without a trouble, and relatively cheap.

But if you drop them for volks with shreck... oh boy.

I hope you aren't serious about Bazookas.

IMO, 6-8 zooks are much better at scaring away German armor then Jacksons. At least, infantry has much better chances to survive after someone sneezing on them

I read a document prepared by the US army a while ago on US tank destroyer doctrine in WW2. TDs were almost always used defensively and that's how I see them in the game; never chase. Soak up vet and use HVAP shells to consistently give your opponent a bloody nose. If you want to dive tanks and come out alive, then play with Panthers.