M36 Jackson
9 Feb 2016, 02:51 AM
#41
Posts: 150
The problems starts when you have jackson as your lone piece of armour, with a sherman or second jackson they become really good as kiting tools
9 Feb 2016, 02:56 AM
#42
Posts: 55
I read a document prepared by the US army a while ago on US tank destroyer doctrine in WW2. TDs were almost always used defensively and that's how I see them in the game; never chase. Soak up vet and use HVAP shells to consistently give your opponent a bloody nose. If you want to dive tanks and come out alive, then play with Panthers.
+1
9 Feb 2016, 03:22 AM
#43
Posts: 5279
Hvap, still find it stupid that usf has to pay for armor
At least the capitalists CAN pay for pen... The reason communism failed is because their non doc pen is capped at 200..
#stalinwept
9 Feb 2016, 07:45 AM
#44
Posts: 1220
then ostheer desperatly needs something for the "light vehicle" stage of the game before usf gets touched, or tell me how many ostheer players did you see in 1v1 in the past days?
im not 1vs1 player (pls dont say that 4vs4 its not part of this game)
in larger games 3+ mid game with light tanks its just cuple of minutes but late game sometimes take 60% of game time. so who have better chance to win ? sometimes i think games 3+ only dependent how strong your late game is. thx god for brits
9 Feb 2016, 08:05 AM
#45
Posts: 61
I read a document prepared by the US army a while ago on US tank destroyer doctrine in WW2. TDs were almost always used defensively and that's how I see them in the game; never chase. Soak up vet and use HVAP shells to consistently give your opponent a bloody nose. If you want to dive tanks and come out alive, then play with Panthers.
The US TD doctrine was a failure so maybe the games being fluffy.
9 Feb 2016, 08:16 AM
#46
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
In large team game, the problem is that you have to manage minimum 2 Jacksons at the same time to counter 1 heavy + shreck blob you can't do much about with the jackson.
Vs Ostheer there is no real issue, jackson vs elephant. It is when OKW is near by that's the elephant is impossible to counter.
Looking forward for OKW adjustment next patch.
In 1vs1 or 2vs2, the matchup is much more balanced late game if you exclude shitty maps like crossing the wood.
Vs Ostheer there is no real issue, jackson vs elephant. It is when OKW is near by that's the elephant is impossible to counter.
Looking forward for OKW adjustment next patch.
In 1vs1 or 2vs2, the matchup is much more balanced late game if you exclude shitty maps like crossing the wood.
9 Feb 2016, 08:41 AM
#47
Posts: 378
IMO, 6-8 zooks are much better at scaring away German armor then Jacksons. At least, infantry has much better chances to survive after someone sneezing on them
The zook blob may work, but quickly becomes invalid by weefee from another wehr player.
Back to the topic, M36 gun should be more reliable at penetrating panther and tiger at long range (you can't use them at close range at all).
9 Feb 2016, 08:49 AM
#48
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
It's fine.
Fast, cheap, turret, 200dmg, 60 range. What else?
Fast, cheap, turret, 200dmg, 60 range. What else?
9 Feb 2016, 10:14 AM
#49
Posts: 770
The zook blob may work, but quickly becomes invalid by weefee from another wehr player.
Back to the topic, M36 gun should be more reliable at penetrating panther and tiger at long range (you can't use them at close range at all).
Are you kidding me? the jackson is the the third best TD that can penetrate a heavy tank. the only ones that do it better are the panther and the firefly but they have shit dps. with hvap they are the best TD's to take on heavy tanks.
the weakness of the m36 is not heavy tanks but medium tanks. 2 p4's will have a far better chance to catch a m36 and because of their much higher dps can quickly eliminate a lone m36.
9 Feb 2016, 10:28 AM
#50
9 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29
It does need a buff. Only out ranging the tiger and KT by 15 now has made it tougher to micro for sure. Also KT 2 hitting it is brutal.
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9 Feb 2016, 10:35 AM
#51
Posts: 1220
for me stug is the best TD if u make 3 u can easliy rekt evry alied tank
9 Feb 2016, 10:37 AM
#52
Posts: 1220
dabul post 
9 Feb 2016, 10:43 AM
#53
Posts: 334
I'd be happy just to see a HP increase to 560, the same as the M10.
9 Feb 2016, 12:13 PM
#54
Posts: 521
I find the M36 pretty balanced, it never crossed my mind that it needs buffs. It can penetrate Panthers/Tigers pretty easily, as long as you keep it protected by infantry and other tanks.
9 Feb 2016, 13:57 PM
#55
Posts: 83
Pathing has nothing to do with shots bouncing off of heavy axis armour late game.
I just had a 2v2 where a KT just YOLO'd into my 2 Jacksons. It was like bounce-bounce-pen-bounce-bounce-bounce-pen-pen-bounce-bounce.......
And it's the best AT vehicle I have. Wtf am I even supposed to do in 2v2 late game vs double OKW (or single for that matter)? Panthers and KT is just GG.
The fact that KT 2 shots it doesn't really help.
1v1 it's fine, but 2v2 there's just too much shit to do any real damage without being rekt. The schreck blob that is roaming around is a threat too and can quickly delete your Jackson if you make a single mistake.
9 Feb 2016, 14:16 PM
#56
Posts: 3
I think the issue with balancing the USF is the hugh difference in 4v4 (useless) vs 1v1 (very strong). On everything higher than 2v2 every OST player goes staight to T4 and crushes USF tanks post 25 min with panthers and brummbaer. In a 1v1 you can counter heavy armor either by an infantry advantage denying your enemy to cap the map or flanking. Both tactics are nearly impossible with all the units of a 4v4. Thats why most 4v4 are actually just standoffs around the VPs. I dont understand why they cannot change the balance depending on the playmode. I believe that would be the best option to avoid overpowering the USF in 1v1 and to bring it back as a valuable fraction in 4v4. Other than that you could replace the sherman easy8 with a sherman firefly. Since the easy8 is not a callin anymore I really dont see it being used anymore.
9 Feb 2016, 14:31 PM
#57
3 
Posts: 545
At least the capitalists CAN pay for pen... The reason communism failed is because their non doc pen is capped at 200..
Which is ironic in a way, as the only nation that had tungsten in extreme quantities readily available with no need of shipping overseas, and plentiful enough to justify use in everyday ammunition at the front was the USSR. The Tungsten round fired from the T34/85 was quite the kitty tickler. Larger calibers, well kitty had a bad day.
9 Feb 2016, 14:36 PM
#58
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
I think the issue with balancing the USF is the hugh difference in 4v4 (useless) vs 1v1 (very strong). On everything higher than 2v2 every OST player goes staight to T4 and crushes USF tanks post 25 min with panthers and brummbaer. In a 1v1 you can counter heavy armor either by an infantry advantage denying your enemy to cap the map or flanking. Both tactics are nearly impossible with all the units of a 4v4. Thats why most 4v4 are actually just standoffs around the VPs. I dont understand why they cannot change the balance depending on the playmode. I believe that would be the best option to avoid overpowering the USF in 1v1 and to bring it back as a valuable fraction in 4v4. Other than that you could replace the sherman easy8 with a sherman firefly. Since the easy8 is not a callin anymore I really dont see it being used anymore.
I think the 4v4 tourney Showed that allies and USf are not weak 4v4( some May say op when allies have 100% winrate in that tourney lol), it's just much more coordination required to keep up a aggressive playstyle in 4v4
Dont keep these Myths alive with lategame instant lose or 2v2+ axis so OP, because its not, it's just a matter of l2p.
9 Feb 2016, 14:58 PM
#59
Posts: 378
Are you kidding me? the jackson is the the third best TD that can penetrate a heavy tank. the only ones that do it better are the panther and the firefly but they have shit dps. with hvap they are the best TD's to take on heavy tanks.
the weakness of the m36 is not heavy tanks but medium tanks. 2 p4's will have a far better chance to catch a m36 and because of their much higher dps can quickly eliminate a lone m36.
HVAP is vet ability. How the vehicle can vet up is another story. If there is no penetration, then there is no HVAP. Bringing HVAP to argue is the same with bring Blitzkrieg or Tactician Smoke to argue.
From my previous experience, M36 fare better chance against medium, because shot always penetrate. Against heavy armor like Panther, Tiger and higher, M36 become RNG dependency. If player is unlucky, the heavy will laugh and start to slaughter, maybe not the M36, but the infantry or vehicle it suppose to cover. Once the heavy finish its role, it retreats back and M36 cannot venture to chase because of its measly hp.
9 Feb 2016, 16:40 PM
#60
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
im in the camp that says jackson is fine i. 3v3+. very fragile and whenever we kill a jackson, we joke that the opponent looked away for a second. but 200-240 damage is very valuable pluse 125fu isnt too much.
one is a joke but any addition, it is a serious threat.
the real problem is pathing and no room for maneuver on so so many maps.
one is a joke but any addition, it is a serious threat.
the real problem is pathing and no room for maneuver on so so many maps.
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