Heat-seeking Technology

Whats the deal with anti-tank weapon projectiles "locking on" to vehicles?
I think we have all seen it before: a shrek fires on a moving tank and the projectile wont hit the target, and for some reason, the rocket's path will change and home in on the tank. It doesn't happen only with shreks though; it happens with basically every anti-tank weapon in this game with the exception for anti-tank rifles, and i think it's an issue that needs to be addressed.

I'm not sure if the devs intended for those mechanics to function as so, but if the projectile misses, it should miss. I propose that the targeted projectiles should be given the same characteristics as a projectile fired when given the "attack ground" order. Should the projectile impact the vehicle's hitbox, then RNG can take care of penetration, damage, and crits.

Anti-tank snares such as the american antitank rifle grenade and the panzerfaust are a bit trickier, and for now, I don't see them as much of a problem. However, if it were to be also addressed some day, I feel like a skillshot system should be used. Infantry would still have to get closer to vehicles to make hitting their target easier, but the munitions spent wouldn't always guarantee a hit 99% of the time (or whatever the accuracy is). There are three main components to this idea that are integral: 1. aiming mechanism, 2. preparatory command, and 3. direct path flight

1. Upon ordering the unit to fire, one of the squad members will kneel/stand in the ready position, a aiming "line" will appear, and upon firing/throwing, the projectile will shoot to the area being aimed at with a predetermined degree of accuracy (could increase on veterancy). Timing is important!

2. Because firing will not be instantaneous, it would benefit players expecting to fight armor to give their infantry a preparatory command, allowing the faust, grenade, or rifle grenade to be held at the ready, making the firing time significantly faster, but then also removing the model's ability to use its firearm. There is creates a risk/reward situation that could be interesting. Of course, this preparatory command can be canceled if the player decides it is not worth leaving the unit shorthanded on fighting ability when say, it is fighting an enemy unit. The munitions are spent when the preparatory command is given, and returned when the command is canceled. This preparatory command could also be applied grenades and stuff. For units such as the Soviet conscripts and their slow molotov throw time, the explosive could be held at the ready and thrown faster. Further, as a bonus feature, to discourage blobbing with this mechanic, if the model dies, the explosive can be dropped and basically damage or kill friendly models.

3. Direct path flight basically means the projectile will have the same characteristics as any projectile fired with an "attack ground" order. This means that any large,dense pieces of shrubbery, cover, or enemy vehicles in the flight path can potentially preemptively detonate the projectile. Positioning is quite important here. Whats nice about this is that it also opens up the possibility of these weapons being used against buildings and cover, which could be cool, and also allows vehicle screening.

Extra: The American anti-tank rifle-grenade projectile would be faster like it is in real life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duuYe_CDUUI
@ 0:33 it shows how the American AT rifle grenade is used.


To my understanding, this game is supposed to be a tactically immersive game-play experience that values balance over realism. These changes can bring about more utility and options to units and make the game more interesting. It isn't really a game breaking issue but I still want to see what you guys think. Thanks for reading!

If snares become skillshots they would have to be price buffed or performance buffed, and both those remove strategic depth

If snares become skillshots they would have to be price buffed or performance buffed, and both those remove strategic depth

I don't understand. Explain please?

They are very important to game balance. Example: I have a Grenadier protecting my retreating Sniper as a M20 armored car chases it. Normally I would just Faust it the normal way, I'm paying 25 munis to protect my sniper and cripple/damage his vehicle. With skillshot system snaring moving vehicles would require inordinate usage of apm and skill, meaning that vehicle play would overpower snare play unless snares were buffed or made cheaper to the point of being free.

Yeah, dont change what is not broken.

The reason why there's "heat-seeking" rockets or whatever is because the game decides what is a hit before the projectile becomes visible. That's what I assume, at least.

Yeah, dont change what is not broken.

Nothing else needs to be said

This threat was exactly posted long time ago in official forums, and after all this time, i still find it a nonsense, product of someone that wants tanks to rule over infantry easily

Skill shots are cool, but Infantry AT would need to get a total rebalance. So Relic wont bother with it

Projectiles set to tp_homing will change course if they need to in order to hit. Pretty much every weapon that travels in a (mostly) straight line uses this type. The only other option would be tp_artillery or a variant of it, which removes accuracy altogether and forces scatter on every shot.

It's only noticeable with shrecks, bazookas, and other infantry anti-tank weapons because the projectiles travel much slower than cannon shells.

The reason why there's "heat-seeking" rockets or whatever is because the game decides what is a hit before the projectile becomes visible. That's what I assume, at least.

this is it. when the shreck fires, the game rolls to determine hit or miss. if it's a hit, the projectile HAS to hit, regardless if the line of fire is no longer applicable, hence the "homing" effect.

if a miss is rolled, the projectile still fires where aimed with horizontal and vertical scatter taken into account. the game then computes the collision detection... if the projectile intersects the vehicle, a hit is still scored.

that's why it's literally always better to keep vehicles moving, since it eliminates the chance for a rolled miss to become a hit.

also, FYI, the way the collision detection works, scatter that is long (beyond the target) will still generally produce a hit, so if you're using attack ground you can increase your chances of a hit by aiming just beyond what you're shooting at.

this is it. when the shreck fires, the game rolls to determine hit or miss. if it's a hit, the projectile HAS to hit, regardless if the line of fire is no longer applicable, hence the "homing" effect.

if a miss is rolled, the projectile still fires where aimed with horizontal and vertical scatter taken into account. the game then computes the collision detection... if the projectile intersects the vehicle, a hit is still scored.

that's why it's literally always better to keep vehicles moving, since it eliminates the chance for a rolled miss to become a hit.

also, FYI, the way the collision detection works, scatter that is long (beyond the target) will still generally produce a hit, so if you're using attack ground you can increase your chances of a hit by aiming just beyond what you're shooting at.

I'm pretty sure that units have an accuracy penalty against moving vehicles as well, effectively compounding one's chances of dodging handheld AT when you're keeping your vehicles moving.

That's probably why kiting is so effective, especially at max range.

I'm pretty sure that units have an accuracy penalty against moving vehicles as well, ...

No at as far as I know, target speed is irrelevant... Only if the vehicle that is moving and firing suffers penalties...

i can't speak to this... i'm no cruzz. but i saw a dev video explaining how scatter and hits are calculated.

skill shot AT snares are bad against fast vehicles, this was easy to see if you played with Techmarine in DoW2. there's too much shit going on to land grenades against fast vehicles, especially with lag, and there isn't any need for such a system on snares. the only way such a system would be possibly feasible would be with something like tulips but the system would have to be near instantaneous without turret rotation or any kind of aim time.

No at as far as I know, target speed is irrelevant... Only if the vehicle that is moving and firing suffers penalties...

speed is certainly irrelevant. i've seen the claim that moving targets are harder to hit once or twice in the past but i've never seen evidence or conformation one way or the other.