Penalties to AT squads
Posts: 168
so why not give penalties to squads that carry AT weapons? Both schrecks and zooks.
Here's an example: Panzergrenadiers get -25% weapon cooldown, -29% received accuracy in vet 2 and then +40% accuracy in vet 3. Gaining veterancy with AT weapons squads is extremely easy, so in no time you will end up with a flexible, tough, non-directional AT squad that's also lethal in close range. If you are playing soviets without shocks or guards you may as well drop and search for another match.
A squad should get weaker veterancy stats once they become an AT squad. Also they should be slower moving than the non AT-equipped version.
I believe this will stop a lot of blobbing and add depth to gameplay. AT guns would no longer be something you spam when your base is being torn apart.
The exception should only be Soviet guards and PTRS-carrying conscripts, sinc ethe PTRS is not in the same leauge as the panzerschrek or bazooka.
Posts: 341
But u do have a point, however i think the nerf should be implemented otherwise.
How about that squads with shreks/zooks move 20% slower , that will make them easier to deal with using vehicles.
Another important thing is that Shreks and zooks won't fire on infantry , it makes no sense whatsoever, that would also get rid of the occasional snipes they can make.
Posts: 168
first of all I've never ever seen a blob of pgrens
And i've never seen a T-34/85 bounce the rear armor of a King Tiger
-Cost
Get 4 squads, equip all with panzerschrecks and 1 salvo will literally destroy a sherman. When the allied infantry comes just retreat, since retreating squads recieve less damage and accuracy.
Repeat this and you will win late game axis.
Posts: 230
Permanently Banned
And i've never seen a T-34/85 bounce the rear armor of a King Tiger
-Cost
Get 4 squads, equip all with panzerschrecks and 1 salvo will literally destroy a sherman. When the allied infantry comes just retreat, since retreating squads recieve less damage and accuracy.
Repeat this and you will win late game axis.
What fights infantry? Also wrong.
shreck damage is 120. sherman health = 640. 640/120 = 5.333. Meaning it requires 6 hits to kill. And thats only if all the shots hit.
So this retarded "axis always OP" stigma only works on those who dont know how to play. I.E. you.
Pls nerf till they become unusable im guessing is what you had in mind?
Posts: 341
And i've never seen a T-34/85 bounce the rear armor of a King Tiger
-Cost
Get 4 squads, equip all with panzerschrecks and 1 salvo will literally destroy a sherman. When the allied infantry comes just retreat, since retreating squads recieve less damage and accuracy.
Repeat this and you will win late game axis.
yeah cuz that is 8 shreks , makes perfect sense .
But anw 4 Pgrens cost 1360 MP so not exactly an expandable sum of mp especially late game .
and with the 480 muni u'll be spending on them u can literally spam mines or use a lot of abilities to do something else.
U can kite them with shermans , use callies or katys or any sort of indirect fire and u'll be fine.
Regardless , They do need some sort of nerf.
Posts: 341
shreck damage is 120. sherman health = 640. 640/120 = 5.333. Meaning it requires 6 hits to kill. And thats only if all the shots hit.
Pgrens get double shreks but they become almost useless against infantry , i've never seen anyone complain about them being op though
Volks on the other hand ......
Posts: 230
Permanently Banned
Pgrens get double shreks but they become almost useless against infantry , i've never seen anyone complain about them being op though
Volks on the other hand ......
I do not like volks with panzershrecks at all, they are quite stupid Frankenstein unit. But to say they are OP. Is just stupid. They lose to all allied infantry above a rear echelon squad. Their only use is to be blocking troops, AT, and distractions for obers or call in inf. At vet 5 they are not even comparable to vet 3 allied inf.
Posts: 341
They lose to all allied infantry above a rear echelon squad.
They are an even match to cons in early game and way superior at vet 5 to vet 3 cons .
They are also better than riflemen when they are at vet 5 , unless u have LMG upgrade on ur riflemen in which case they slightly lose .
Posts: 230
Permanently BannedI'd like you to go and compare the stats of the units, as well as veterancy bonuses. Rather than what you "feel" is true.
They are an even match to cons in early game and way superior at vet 5 to vet 3 cons .
They are also better than riflemen when they are at vet 5 , unless u have LMG upgrade on ur riflemen in which case they slightly lose .
Rifles received acc at vet 3: .59
Volks at vet 5: .81
Conscripts at vet 3: .65
Volks are far less resilient as vet 5 than to vet 3 rifles and conscripts.
Riflemen have much higher close-mid dps and marginally better long range dps than volk squads. Compound that with dual equipping lmg or bars and its not uncommon to see a vet 3 rifle squad beat the shit out of a volk squad with no model losses.
https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1238
Posts: 341
I'd like you to go and compare the stats of the units, as well as veterancy bonuses. Rather than what you "feel" is true.
Rifles received acc at vet 3: .59
Volks at vet 5: .81
Conscripts at vet 3: .65
Volks are far less resilient as vet 5 than to vet 3 rifles and conscripts.
Riflemen have much higher close-mid dps and marginally better long range dps than volk squads. Compound that with dual equipping lmg or bars and its not uncommon to see a vet 3 rifle squad beat the shit out of a volk squad with no model losses.
https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1238
I'm pretty sure a unit's performance goes beyond received accuracy , i don't know the exact stats , i don't know where to look em up as well, if u can provide em that'd be great.
Or maybe we can get one of the startegists opinions on this matter.
Anw volks are op cuz they are cheap, spammable versatile and tough.
Add to that a frp and u'll have enough to make a perfect blob .
Posts: 70
Posts: 769 | Subs: 1
But u do have a point, however i think the nerf should be implemented otherwise.
How about that squads with shreks/zooks move 20% slower , that will make them easier to deal with using vehicles.
I actually really like the idea of trying volks being a bit slower when equipped with panzerschreks (maybe removed at a high vet level so they scale). Forces you to be defensive with them. A slow blob is a dead blob.
Posts: 1248
We all know that AT gun crews are vulnerable to any infantry, that's why you don't see 5 raketenwerfers or 4 6-pounders roaming around the map in packs.
so why not give penalties to squads that carry AT weapons? Both schrecks and zooks.
Here's an example: Panzergrenadiers get -25% weapon cooldown, -29% received accuracy in vet 2 and then +40% accuracy in vet 3. Gaining veterancy with AT weapons squads is extremely easy, so in no time you will end up with a flexible, tough, non-directional AT squad that's also lethal in close range. If you are playing soviets without shocks or guards you may as well drop and search for another match.
A squad should get weaker veterancy stats once they become an AT squad. Also they should be slower moving than the non AT-equipped version.
I believe this will stop a lot of blobbing and add depth to gameplay. AT guns would no longer be something you spam when your base is being torn apart.
The exception should only be Soviet guards and PTRS-carrying conscripts, sinc ethe PTRS is not in the same leauge as the panzerschrek or bazooka.
The reason you dont see pgren shreck blobs is because there are penalties and if he is pgren shreck blobbing yeahhh hes gonna get rekt.
Posts: 5279
I actually really like the idea of trying volks being a bit slower when equipped with panzerschreks (maybe removed at a high vet level so they scale). Forces you to be defensive with them. A slow blob is a dead blob.
what about a penalty to movement when in enemy territory but full speed in friendly? (kinda like tommies in coh of)
then the okws defencive capability stay good but attack moves of balance into enemy territory wont be as viable. a reasonable price decrease for the shrek package if that were to be. maybe a sprint ability that costs the difference? i dont know....
Posts: 1891
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
This is the example of how AT squad with such potent weapons should be.
Posts: 23
Hardest impact on OST
- Pgrens/Storms 4 models no FRP = need retreat more often then other factions = no chance to have AT units where you need them = pak is all you have
- OKW will blob more - more models can stay longer and can do more damage
-or- Volks become near useless (maybe for defense)
USF/UKF - this factions can decide whitch unit become AT (OST/OKW cant) and have acces to FRP
- captain will loose alot but who care
- piats become even worst (in case this is possible somehow)
SU - is happy
UKF/USF/SU - (early) vehicle play buffed
Please go and start another Volks-shreck-blob-OP and dont ruin everything else around.
THX have a n ice day
Posts: 468
What fights infantry? Also wrong.
shreck damage is 120. sherman health = 640. 640/120 = 5.333. Meaning it requires 6 hits to kill. And thats only if all the shots hit.
So this retarded "axis always OP" stigma only works on those who dont know how to play. I.E. you.
Pls nerf till they become unusable im guessing is what you had in mind?
Lol, permanently banned?
But yes, just another guy who couldn't do his math with pgrens.
Yeah I saw my t34-85s bounce rear shots against KT yesterday... it was pretty sad.
Posts: 1216
Posts: 199
They will at the very least need to micro a little harder so not to stagger the arrival time of the blob.... Not much but a little bit more micro.
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