Penalties to AT squads

We all know that AT gun crews are vulnerable to any infantry, that's why you don't see 5 raketenwerfers or 4 6-pounders roaming around the map in packs.

so why not give penalties to squads that carry AT weapons? Both schrecks and zooks.

Here's an example: Panzergrenadiers get -25% weapon cooldown, -29% received accuracy in vet 2 and then +40% accuracy in vet 3. Gaining veterancy with AT weapons squads is extremely easy, so in no time you will end up with a flexible, tough, non-directional AT squad that's also lethal in close range. If you are playing soviets without shocks or guards you may as well drop and search for another match.

A squad should get weaker veterancy stats once they become an AT squad. Also they should be slower moving than the non AT-equipped version.

I believe this will stop a lot of blobbing and add depth to gameplay. AT guns would no longer be something you spam when your base is being torn apart.

The exception should only be Soviet guards and PTRS-carrying conscripts, sinc ethe PTRS is not in the same leauge as the panzerschrek or bazooka.

first of all I've never ever seen a blob of pgrens , for their cost and the cost of the upgrade they are totally balanced imo.
But u do have a point, however i think the nerf should be implemented otherwise.
How about that squads with shreks/zooks move 20% slower , that will make them easier to deal with using vehicles.
Another important thing is that Shreks and zooks won't fire on infantry , it makes no sense whatsoever, that would also get rid of the occasional snipes they can make.

first of all I've never ever seen a blob of pgrens

And i've never seen a T-34/85 bounce the rear armor of a King Tiger

-Cost
Get 4 squads, equip all with panzerschrecks and 1 salvo will literally destroy a sherman. When the allied infantry comes just retreat, since retreating squads recieve less damage and accuracy.


Repeat this and you will win late game axis.

And i've never seen a T-34/85 bounce the rear armor of a King Tiger

-Cost
Get 4 squads, equip all with panzerschrecks and 1 salvo will literally destroy a sherman. When the allied infantry comes just retreat, since retreating squads recieve less damage and accuracy.


Repeat this and you will win late game axis.

What fights infantry? Also wrong.

shreck damage is 120. sherman health = 640. 640/120 = 5.333. Meaning it requires 6 hits to kill. And thats only if all the shots hit.

So this retarded "axis always OP" stigma only works on those who dont know how to play. I.E. you.

Pls nerf till they become unusable im guessing is what you had in mind?

And i've never seen a T-34/85 bounce the rear armor of a King Tiger

-Cost
Get 4 squads, equip all with panzerschrecks and 1 salvo will literally destroy a sherman. When the allied infantry comes just retreat, since retreating squads recieve less damage and accuracy.


Repeat this and you will win late game axis.

yeah cuz that is 8 shreks , makes perfect sense .
But anw 4 Pgrens cost 1360 MP so not exactly an expandable sum of mp especially late game .
and with the 480 muni u'll be spending on them u can literally spam mines or use a lot of abilities to do something else.
U can kite them with shermans , use callies or katys or any sort of indirect fire and u'll be fine.
Regardless , They do need some sort of nerf.

shreck damage is 120. sherman health = 640. 640/120 = 5.333. Meaning it requires 6 hits to kill. And thats only if all the shots hit.

Pgrens get double shreks but they become almost useless against infantry , i've never seen anyone complain about them being op though
Volks on the other hand ......

Pgrens get double shreks but they become almost useless against infantry , i've never seen anyone complain about them being op though
Volks on the other hand ......

I do not like volks with panzershrecks at all, they are quite stupid Frankenstein unit. But to say they are OP. Is just stupid. They lose to all allied infantry above a rear echelon squad. Their only use is to be blocking troops, AT, and distractions for obers or call in inf. At vet 5 they are not even comparable to vet 3 allied inf.

They lose to all allied infantry above a rear echelon squad.

They are an even match to cons in early game and way superior at vet 5 to vet 3 cons .
They are also better than riflemen when they are at vet 5 , unless u have LMG upgrade on ur riflemen in which case they slightly lose .

They are an even match to cons in early game and way superior at vet 5 to vet 3 cons .
They are also better than riflemen when they are at vet 5 , unless u have LMG upgrade on ur riflemen in which case they slightly lose .

I'd like you to go and compare the stats of the units, as well as veterancy bonuses. Rather than what you "feel" is true.

Rifles received acc at vet 3: .59

Volks at vet 5: .81

Conscripts at vet 3: .65

Volks are far less resilient as vet 5 than to vet 3 rifles and conscripts.

Riflemen have much higher close-mid dps and marginally better long range dps than volk squads. Compound that with dual equipping lmg or bars and its not uncommon to see a vet 3 rifle squad beat the shit out of a volk squad with no model losses.
https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1238

I'd like you to go and compare the stats of the units, as well as veterancy bonuses. Rather than what you "feel" is true.

Rifles received acc at vet 3: .59

Volks at vet 5: .81

Conscripts at vet 3: .65

Volks are far less resilient as vet 5 than to vet 3 rifles and conscripts.

Riflemen have much higher close-mid dps and marginally better long range dps than volk squads. Compound that with dual equipping lmg or bars and its not uncommon to see a vet 3 rifle squad beat the shit out of a volk squad with no model losses.
https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1238

I'm pretty sure a unit's performance goes beyond received accuracy , i don't know the exact stats , i don't know where to look em up as well, if u can provide em that'd be great.
Or maybe we can get one of the startegists opinions on this matter.
Anw volks are op cuz they are cheap, spammable versatile and tough.
Add to that a frp and u'll have enough to make a perfect blob .

The root of the problem is that each shrek hit gives alot(read too much) vet exp.... Its ok on high upkeep units like pgrens, while volkgrens... KappaClaus

But u do have a point, however i think the nerf should be implemented otherwise.
How about that squads with shreks/zooks move 20% slower , that will make them easier to deal with using vehicles.

I actually really like the idea of trying volks being a bit slower when equipped with panzerschreks (maybe removed at a high vet level so they scale). Forces you to be defensive with them. A slow blob is a dead blob.

We all know that AT gun crews are vulnerable to any infantry, that's why you don't see 5 raketenwerfers or 4 6-pounders roaming around the map in packs.

so why not give penalties to squads that carry AT weapons? Both schrecks and zooks.

Here's an example: Panzergrenadiers get -25% weapon cooldown, -29% received accuracy in vet 2 and then +40% accuracy in vet 3. Gaining veterancy with AT weapons squads is extremely easy, so in no time you will end up with a flexible, tough, non-directional AT squad that's also lethal in close range. If you are playing soviets without shocks or guards you may as well drop and search for another match.

A squad should get weaker veterancy stats once they become an AT squad. Also they should be slower moving than the non AT-equipped version.

I believe this will stop a lot of blobbing and add depth to gameplay. AT guns would no longer be something you spam when your base is being torn apart.

The exception should only be Soviet guards and PTRS-carrying conscripts, sinc ethe PTRS is not in the same leauge as the panzerschrek or bazooka.

The reason you dont see pgren shreck blobs is because there are penalties and if he is pgren shreck blobbing yeahhh hes gonna get rekt.

I actually really like the idea of trying volks being a bit slower when equipped with panzerschreks (maybe removed at a high vet level so they scale). Forces you to be defensive with them. A slow blob is a dead blob.

what about a penalty to movement when in enemy territory but full speed in friendly? (kinda like tommies in coh of)
then the okws defencive capability stay good but attack moves of balance into enemy territory wont be as viable. a reasonable price decrease for the shrek package if that were to be. maybe a sprint ability that costs the difference? i dont know....

I think volks shreks should be more close range anti tank like dow2 melta guns. Problem is with range nerf current shrek wouldn't do its job well.

Out of all possible AT squads, you use PGrens as an example for penalties...?

This is the example of how AT squad with such potent weapons should be.

Movement penalti for AT squads is super BAD idea (20% ?!? realy ?!?). This change make AT infantry useless. Now you can kite with vehicles after nerf there is no chance to get in range with AT infantri.

Hardest impact on OST

- Pgrens/Storms 4 models no FRP = need retreat more often then other factions = no chance to have AT units where you need them = pak is all you have

- OKW will blob more - more models can stay longer and can do more damage
-or- Volks become near useless (maybe for defense)

USF/UKF - this factions can decide whitch unit become AT (OST/OKW cant) and have acces to FRP
- captain will loose alot but who care
- piats become even worst (in case this is possible somehow)

SU - is happy

UKF/USF/SU - (early) vehicle play buffed

Please go and start another Volks-shreck-blob-OP and dont ruin everything else around.

THX have a n ice day

What fights infantry? Also wrong.

shreck damage is 120. sherman health = 640. 640/120 = 5.333. Meaning it requires 6 hits to kill. And thats only if all the shots hit.

So this retarded "axis always OP" stigma only works on those who dont know how to play. I.E. you.

Pls nerf till they become unusable im guessing is what you had in mind?

Lol, permanently banned?

But yes, just another guy who couldn't do his math with pgrens.
Yeah I saw my t34-85s bounce rear shots against KT yesterday... it was pretty sad.

There are already penalties to AT squads, problem is that Volks get the lesser penalty whereas Riflemen with 2x bazookas get more, yet arguably perform worse.

The only thing I like about the reduced speed to AT weapon infantry is that if they have amassed a blob of lets say Volks/Obers or Rifleman with Bars/zooks is that they cannot just A move the mixture of AT and AI equipped units together as one blob and effectively counter everything with one click.

They will at the very least need to micro a little harder so not to stagger the arrival time of the blob.... Not much but a little bit more micro.