Ostheer is on life support

Thank you for this.
You just made my day

But please start playing wehrmacht in automatch, im sure you"ll get atleast twice the ranking with them than with your allied counterparts since Wehr is soooo easy

I think we are all derailing the topic. This can become a constant pointing fingers and excuses. You're pointing out our playercards... please be equal and show your own. Axis players that never play Allies can be asked identical questions you have stated and be in just as much of a bind. You imply that because I only play team games that that invalidates my opinion on balance and every one else that plays team games. Then the next excuse is, you have better teammates, or you cheese to win, or better players play certain factions. The excuses will never end.

If you want to have more control of a statistic, control the variables. I'll just look at my own record then. Whether or not I'm a good player or a bad player can be left out of the question. I'm just one player. However, I've played with all factions, all maps, and have quite a few games in my record, i can imply my skill is the same throughout all these games and factions. My Allies win rate is around 60% but my Axis win rate is between 70-80%. If i'm a bad player, I'm still better at playing Axis than I am Allies. If I'm a good player, I'm still winning more as Axis than I am Allies.

You start off by judging players, misread their stats, and droop down to insulting.
Please use facts and statistics to back your arguments like http://coh2chart.com/ and saying that OST 1v1, 2v2 are at an all-time low in W/L ratios since AEC patch and needs to be looked at. Instead of "i'm getting owned in this game so it must be changed" or "your comments don't count because you're an Allies fanboi" because your comments are neither constructive nor beneficial to this thread at the moment.

I like how 4v4 scrubs argue 1s and 2s players like Zarok, always brings a smile to my face.

Show Spoiler

It makes me smile like when you try to tell someone to l2p :-D

I think we are all derailing the topic. This can become a constant pointing fingers and excuses. You're pointing out our playercards... please be equal and show your own.

Now excuse me as i now wish to "get owned at this game and assume it must be changed".

This thing is indeed far too offtopic, and i will no longer reply.

Have a day.

I don't want to take out the broom. Back on topic plz.

I would like to start by saying yes, i am a known usf fanboy. No, this thread isnt troll.

Ostheer and brits are my favorite factions after usf, i love these two because of theyre AMAZING combined arms design, their abilities and units, etc.

But thats not the point. I would like to bring up the question as to why ostheer cant be more like brits.

Not with more emplacements, dont get it twisted.
but with other things.

Ostheer and brits play very similarly, obviously not including emplacements, but there are key aspects missing in ostheers favor:

• Light vehicles
  The brits have the AEC, why can't ostheer have a panzer 3 that can self spot for all these suppport weapons and give recon or something? Why cant the 222's 20mm cannon at least scare an AEC or stuart away? Why does the 222 lose to a 3 man half health rifle squad with one AT nade? Does a luchs lose to one conscript? Does a stuart lose to one grenadier? Does the AEC lose to one volksgrenadier? Why is 222 getting rekt like this?
  
  Is the Panzer III model is bugged or something and thats why It hasnt been released? Can the puma come at 3CP? DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR VEHICLES, i think I heard ostheer's heart rate slowing as i type this.
  
  good lord, ostheer fails like boiled shit when light vehicles roll out and alot of it is because theyure just missing a counter play vehicle. Grens are fine, mg42 is fine, sniper is fine, mortar is fine, the paks great, the 250 is awesome, and the 222 gives great sight and utility.
  
  but holy shit, I cant use any of this when I have to worry about that ugly ass AEC/m20/stuart coming in and ruining it all in one go. This wasnt a problem when the stuart had 320 hp, or when the aEC was a piece of shiet. Do something about it. I can hear ostheers breath getting softer and softer. Listen to me relic.
  
  and Inb4 some nerd comes in here and tells me to plant a teller. Guess what, nerd, if I plant a teller and hes not an idjit, and he's top 50 and buys sweepers, then what? What if I finish the teller and an AEC comes flying out of nowhere and shoots my pioneers on top of the teller a second after I place it? Stfu. Mines dont counter shit.
  
• Unit and commander abilities
  
  The cromwell seems really strong vs ostheer armor, everything. I think because of the commander upgrade ability which allows you to literally attack move any target and get the first shot in because of the extended sight. If the Germans were known for their amazing tank commanders and coordination, why dont they have a tank commander upgrade that does a similar thing too? This would be a huge buff to the P4 vs sherman/cromwell matchup. The sherman has the penetration advantage and the cromwell has the first AND more accurate shot(s). So let the P4 have something. Right now its a piece of shit and a joke. And its really funny when it fights against comets and stuff, its like a T34-76 fighting an Abrams tank.
  
  
  the panther, why the fuck does the comet raep infantry the way it does, from 50 range and with phosphorus (AND THE COMMANDER UPGRADE ?) Meanwhile, the panther is basically ignored by infantry? give it some anti infantry ability please, this isnt 2013 anymore. The allies have stuff to kill panthers now.
  
  The panther is literally not shit now and its sad. It was funny at brit release but now its just said. Buff the panther.
  
  The tiger, reduce its range back to 40. that was a dumb idea. Just make it slow, give it actual armor, take blitzkrieg away and replace with KT spearhead abilty.(btw still not an OKW thread but fix that fucking ability on the KT its still worse than the main attack for some reason)
  
  My other gripe and final gripe, Brits get artilery cover+forward HQ anti infantry strafe+a recon ability(try it if you have the munitions), ok fine, why is sector artillery or stuka loiterSO SHIT in comparison? (this thread still isnt about OKW, but buff zeroing artillery too)
  
  I love these stalemate back-breaker abilities, they create awesome visuals and moments late game and, well break stalemates...but lets make them all equal, or nerf them all. whatever, but do something about it.
  
  
  
  Right now, ostheer is truly on life support(the panzerwerfer) and I think theyre about to die. So can we please do something and help ostheer out. I cant play them, and no one else will play them. And its a shame because I like them alot, theyre design is great, and so is there concept overall. Fix the power creep and buff them to be like brits please.
  
  
  endrant and thx
  

Dude cookie your one of my favorite posters and I highly respect you but

I don't know how often you use the comet (i do ALL the time multiples of them) but it does not rape infantry. It has a lucky shot every now and then but it is inaccurate as fuck on the move and even standing still it feels buggy and for as much as it cost it should do some AI dmg with it's shot. I mean I know KT and ost T cost more but they are god damn AI wipe machines with huge at power. Comet has crap pen vs a panther and does not do a good job flanking cause it misses on the move like 60 or 70% of the time. As for the white phosphorous it is bugged and dosen't work right most of the time and has led me to losing comets before, also I use it to blind AT guns and as I said blind because thats all it really seems to do it never wipes them and hardly does any dmg never decrews them.

Sector arty well timed can be really effective and way better than brits hq arty that stuff is shit and misses 80% of the time to hit any thing other than maybe a okw truck but its not going to do much dmg.

The panther is not crap it is probably the most rounded AT tank in the game. It has the best frontal armor. I mean honestly how many videos should I post of how many times that thing has been able to defy death when if it was any allied tank no contest would of been dead with superior axis all around AT in general. Like i mean the piat that always misses made the panther shit now or the comet that can't hardly pen its front armor?

MG42 best mg in the game. Ost mortar best basic mortar in the game. Pak best basic at gun in the game. You play USF a lot also my favorite faction and if i can decrew it or ost mortar or at gun I ALWAYS steal it because its the best mg in the game and the best regular mortar/at gun in the game. Just the other day in 2v2 I stole one of there 42's (only had 3 crew members) put it in a house on there fuel in road to kharkov. It must of took them like 10 minutes to counter it because it pins faster than any other mg and unlike any other mg it will pen 5 squads in the arc at once as well as it turns on a dime in buildings it seems. especially vetted AND has super bullets that rape infantry and light vehicles.

I agree AEC timing needs moved back now that it was buffed. I guess thats why your comparing the 222 a super light vehicles like the m20 to a medium light vehicle like the luchs ( which i think still comes out a bit early) or the stuart or t70. However a new addition to give them a medium light might be alright.

I am not going to pretend to that I play ost but against good players I find them a highly effective faction. Maybe the p4 needs a bit of a buff but most of the time i just find that eventually they always over commit there panther or tiger the toughest opponets never do that. I find that both axis factions do best on camping VPs in order to win and force allies into a bad position to run there gauntlet and allies are mostly intense micro and if they let you build to critical mass (especially usf) you find the right time to strike and break there back but then you hit mines and pak walls which can turn that upside down on you.

....

I'm not sure how this thread got so much post nor why it's bugged (Relic Coh2org plz fix)

..........

Don't worry! Help is at hand.

Congrats on your marathon stint of modding on this thread- doubtless it is why it has stayed tolerably within bounds.

I would love to see the AT half-track make a comeback for some light AT. Perhaps on the 250 half-track.

222 probably just needs some retooling to become neat-o again, though it certainly does need to be shrunk a little.

Just played against a rank 50 soviet, put 2 tellers, got 2 t70s. when he called his third light vehicle I just called in a puma.

also the 222 is an excellent vehicle, if you can't make them work you need to improve or just try another unit.

Just played against a rank 50 soviet, put 2 tellers, got 2 t70s. when he called his third light vehicle I just called in a puma.

also the 222 is an excellent vehicle, if you can't make them work you need to improve or just try another unit.

222 is an excellent unit?

Also saving OST is fine since you just won a game is like saying world hunger is over just because you had a big meal...

Just played against a rank 50 soviet, put 2 tellers, got 2 t70s. when he called his third light vehicle I just called in a puma.

also the 222 is an excellent vehicle, if you can't make them work you need to improve or just try another unit.

Good thing for the most part this thread isn't about Soviet light vehicles which arrive usually at balanced times, and can be prepared for and countered,or in the case of T1, causes the Soviet player to be "without" support weapons.

So Please for the love of God, Soviet fanboy, I know you're willing to run through a wall for comrade Stalin but I'm talking about VS USF AND UKF LIGHT V E H I C L E S. My op did not mention soviets. Im not talking about vs soviets. Ostheer is Not on life support vs soviets. Fighting a p3 would not be difficult with current Soviet tools. Ok? Can you relax now?


And rocket just like im telling this guy,you have to play against a proper allied USF/UKF player as Ostheer to know what I'm talking about. Otherwise you might as well be blind folding yourself.

Well your right but anyways agreed AEC needs moved back in timing as well as the luchs just a tad and if relic could figure out how to make a p3 and make it come out in suitable timing great. If they move the AEC back in timing though do you think ost really will need the p3 considering they have the best support weapons as mentioned before every faction kind of has there holes?

Wouldn't just delaying the AEC arrival by about 1min be a good, incremental nurf to test?

I just kinda gotta disagree with people saying panther and tiger being bad. Tiger isn't that great sure. But its not that bad.

The only tanks that are bad are: brummbar, ostwind

Questionably bad: panzer4.

All of ostheers problems lie in the 222, allied light vehicles. Panzergrens being slightly UP. Assgrens, stormtroopers.

Basically all of ostheers infantry aside from ostruppen struggles like hell when it comes to Ai.

Only arguably OP unit is the ostheer sniper. Which that can just be moved to like t2 if truly necessary.

Alright so i watched the casts, yunooh linked.


Space hamster USF vs Shadowada ostheer looked like Space was drunk or just playing bad/didnt care, obviously because he was the Leader of NA by far and has the #1 seed for the finals locked up anyway. Didnt even get his light vehicles out.

Vonivan ost vs paula UKF was sad. I cried real tears for von.. 3 AECs. lol ofc von lost


Wada USF vs paul ostheer grand final, wada didnt go full M5 halftrack stuart cheese. He went LT tier aaht which is much more balanced and manageable as USF sacrifices 100 fuel overall to get said AAHT, .he then went captain and finally stuart. Still powerful vs ostheer but not OP P2w as quad stuart.

. instead of 170 fuel total to get the quad and stuart which is a way stronger combo, he spent 240~ fuel to get the weaker Stuart+M15 combo. by then the game was already lost and he was fighting vs south langres, vs an arguably superior player in paul. So it was possibly the best map, spawn, player combo, everything for it to be in ostheer's favor.

The very next game, Wada's ostheer stood no chance vs paulas AEC abuse.

What ostheer domination?
So in EU...barely anyone picked USF UKF, maybe out of honor or respect? Idk.
Luvnest Soviets beats cruzz ostheer
Luvnest ostheer beats cruzz soviets

Then alot of the games were okw, not ostheer. so i didnt watch those.

Then Luvnest ostheer vs jesulin soviets, and jesulin won pretty handidly
Then a rematch, luv ostheer vs jesulin soviets and luv is better prepared and wins.

Sooooo where was the ostheer domination? I saw some ostheer humilation, and some people saying" **** ost im playing OKW"

cmon guyz dont troll, Elegiggle. Ostheer is on life support.

So what you are saying is that Ost got picked often and won often. Yet it is still clearly on life support; which means barely playable. How does this make sense?

It seems to me that you are just biased. You either ignore evidence that contradict your idea of the state of balance or you come up with strange excuses (people do not pick ukf or usf out of honor? In a tourny? Are you for real?).

people can say what they want but ost is the worst faction to play. The data proves it also.

Easiest way to settle it is for RELIC to release all the win loss data. Not just the top 100 (really how many games is that)

but almost everyone can agree that when they play allies vs ost in 1v1 they are much happier than if OKW showed up.


So RELIC release the complete win loss story on 1v1 and lets see where ost falls or how far in last is it

So what you are saying is that Ost got picked often and won often. Yet it is still clearly on life support; which means barely playable. How does this make sense?

ostheer won 0 games vs the things im referring to in my op, as in they won 0 games vs AEC or the stuart quad combo. At least in the casts linked to me.

they performed and perform fine vs soviets. What is not clear about that? They are barely playable vs the stuff my OP is about. Did you read my OP or just the title? Would you rather me write in the topic title "Ostheer is on life support vs USF and UKF only?"

And how in the actual fuck am I biased towards Ostheer? Talk about not making any sense.
No one has presented any evidence, any replays, any in game expierience, nothing. Absolutely nothing to debunk what I said in the op about allied lights which is the main issue. The panther and tiger and the off map abilities was just 4v4 inspired ranting I'll admit, but are still debateable regardless.

The problem I have; is we change the AEC we're going to leave UKF in a worse state than Ostheer. Its the sole change that has made British Empire Forces playable again. Making a Panzer III when people want to delay the AEC, when UKF has no AT Snare, is bound to be OP.

The problem I have; is we change the AEC we're going to leave UKF in a worse state than Ostheer. Its the sole change that has made British Empire Forces playable again. Making a Panzer III when people want to delay the AEC, when UKF has no AT Snare, is bound to be OP.

delay 1 minute. remove 50 sight. brits wont be unplayable after crutch nerf.