My Idea for Soviet Redesign

Hello all,
Before I go into it, I just want to say I was unsure of what sub-forum this topic would best benefit from. I chose balance because it seems to be the most active and in some ways this is related to the stale and, I guess you could say, some ways imbalanced state of the Soviet faction.

First off, I just want to say that I personally made this thread because I find the Soviets to by far be the least interesting faction of the bunch to play - they always rather provided insufficient amounts of fun to me personally do to their reliance on doctrines - and with the Soviets and Ostheer being the faction with the most doctrines currently available, it makes it kind of disheartening that only a few of the Soviet ones are truly viable.

I think this problem stems from the faction's lack of a reliable non-doctrinal medium tank. All other factions have a medium tank who's abilities are at least worth considering, but the T34/76 is extremely lackluster because of its intended role - to be used in large numbers as a sort of swarm unit, in use sustaining losses of their own while hopefully trading for equal or slightly better losses on the Axis side. Not only is this incredibly micro taxing - it's not very feasible in smaller game modes - where you will not have the opportunity to build as many of these tanks to fit their current (badly) intended role.

So without doing a huge unit overhaul, all I suggest is raising this unit's fuel cost to 100FU or so, and moving it down to T3. Currently, it arrives at the same time as it's Axis counterparts, which are not only superior in every way, but they also don't require doubled numbers to fight effectively. By this point, this tank's independence is very limited. While I understand that all units in the game are supposed to be used in cohesion with each other, every other faction's medium tank is able to retain some independence and go about lightly harassing enemy units and sectors. The T34/76 is already limited in it's anti-infantry performance, so I don't think moving it down to T3 and increasing it's price to an appropriate level will be terribly devastating for any of the opposing factions. I also feel the T34/76 works in MUCH better conjuction with the SU-76, as the T34 can receive a minor beating and maybe, RNG willing, dish out a few blows of its own while an SU-76 works in the background on the intended target. I personally feel this can provide very fun and beautiful unit cohesion in the Soviet faction.

Now this leaves the subject of the Soviet T4 building - which I propose becomes a sort of heavier, upgraded version of the T3 building (similar to Ostheer T4 is to T3) which players can use if they so chose not to rely on doctrinal call-ins. I DO NOT like to advocate for historical resemblance over gameplay, but it seems a shame that such an iconic unit like the T34/85 is limited to two doctrines - so I propose removing it completely from it's doctrinal habitat and placing it in T4 by default. This way, a T34/85 and SU-85 unit synergy can become something of a heavier, more fuel invested version of the T34/76 - SU/76 combination. It will give players the opportunity to chose between lingering in T3 with a potentially more inadequate tank force and playing late game call ins, or for players to chose to invest more fuel in teching and get the heavier Soviet options in T4.

The only problem this leaves is what to do with the Soviet doctrines that utilize the T34/85 ability. For this I propose simply replacing the ability with a KV-1 call-in (another iconic unit which I feel sad to see be limited to one very mediocre doctrine). Of course adjust it's CPs to 12 or so, as even right now in the Counterattack Tactics commander it's at a stupidly low CP requirement.

So, this is just pretty much my one suggestion on how to revitalize the Soviet faction's appeal. Right now I can't help but be tired of seeing the standard SU-76/Zis spam into IS2, the Lend Lease Sherman call in, and players being forced into Guard Motor/Armored Assault everytime they want to tech up to T4 and have access to a T34/85.

So, any suggestions and constructive criticism on my idea would be great, thanks!

Very bad idea to T34/76. It should be cheap, spammable and weak. Not expensive, unspammable and still weak.

Just make it cheap, doctrinal double call-in and make T34/85 as a non-doc

I agree that the T34 in T4 does feel kind of odd and I think the fact that a lot of the Soviet meta commanders feature tank call-ins or 85s speaks volumes. Balance-wise I think its very hard to justify making 85s non-doc - Soviets would be really good then as a faction.

I think the current 76 could maybe just use a slight Vet overhaul so that they can scale worth a damn and maybe some kind of AI buff in exchange for 10~ more fuel cost. That and maybe buffing Ram in some way - removing the engine crit on the 76 and replacing it with crew stunned maybe? Or perhaps making it deal more damage but not critting the enemy tank.

Right now I only build them when I have a fuel advantage and/or knocked out a tank early and know I can outpace my opponent with armor by spamming them. I'd build them more if they had more utility and scaled.

Soviets don't need any redesign.

Whats needed is 3 maybe 4 unit tweaks.

i think relic doesnt believe in that game. Its reasonable. They wanna make last money out of last factions and let it pass away. Its already old...
Maybe last bunch of OP commanders sellout. Logicaly game wont ever be playable anymore. Too much of a playtest required

i think relic doesnt believe in that game. Its reasonable. They wanna make last money out of last factions and let it pass away. Its already old...
Maybe last bunch of OP commanders sellout. Logicaly game wont ever be playable anymore.

Seriously, why are you still here? Come on people, this guy doesn't even play any more, he just hates on the game and relic.

Non doctrinal a bit more expensive T3485 and double call in T3476s (although you might still need T3 or T4 to call them*)

*The tank is not ALL THAT BAD but more on the weak side rather than the strong side of the spectrum of units. Double call in might be fine or really overpowred depending on timing and cost even in their actual state.

no soviets are fine leave them alone. other than the t34 76. everything is fine

no soviets are fine leave them alone. other than the t34 76. everything is fine

penal fine too?one of the most useless units

Seriously, why are you still here? Come on people, this guy doesn't even play any more, he just hates on the game and relic.

The aaa drinking game

Drink if you see the following in aaa's posts

a) Nerf Germs
b) Buff Allies
c) Yay Allies are OP
d) Dis game is bad.

He does play, he just trolls the forums thats all.

penal fine too?one of the most useless units

Penals are not useless.
They are L2P units.

A t34 is great imo, for 90 fuel it's a great unit. Soviets are so much fun to play and have alot of options, they argueably don't need to choose a doctrine to stay viable. Unlike the USF which depends on it's commanders.

Often I use the t34 in 1s/2s and let it soak damage and do damage without overextending. When it gets vet it's a great unit.

Current
kv1
kv2
b4
m42
t34/76
are not fine.


Also
kv8
penals
su85
isu152
is2
mortars
need tweaks.

t34/84 needs to be in t4 because soviets are just a joke in late game.
A lot of abilities and commanders are useless, not well designed, outdated or simply not working properly. You have things like hit the dirt or the single il2 Strafe (Advanced Warfare Tactics).

And then you have the useless unit abilities like cap territory or the absurd amount of flares.

Also shock troops were indirectly punished by the inf spread some months ago and now are unable to use smoke properly as before.

But it gets uglier when you think about the things like the teleporting mg42 and the dead loop of maxims, the supply drop zone, or the current state of AA and aircrafts.

Soviets are NOT fine.

If now SU faction is ok. Then before infamous "light vehicle patch" it was absolutely OP with guard motor being ALOT stronger.
Difference between katy and stuka is like 500mp/100f. The same with other units. 9-10 CP T4 t3476 = 5cp puma Its just stupid to play this trash.

Current
kv1
kv2
b4
m42
t34/76
are not fine.


Also
kv8
penals
su85
isu152
is2
mortars
need tweaks.

t34/84 needs to be in t4 because soviets are just a joke in late game.
A lot of abilities and commanders are useless, not well designed, outdated or simply not working properly. You have things like hit the dirt or the single il2 Strafe (Advanced Warfare Tactics).

And then you have the useless unit abilities like cap territory or the absurd amount of flares.

Also shock troops were indirectly punished by the inf spread some months ago and now are unable to use smoke properly as before.

But it gets uglier when you think about the things like the teleporting mg42 and the dead loop of maxims, the supply drop zone, or the current state of AA and aircrafts.

Soviets are NOT fine.

+
Soviets is decent right noww, but some changes really necessary, and i dont think that ours beloved developers can handle this.

I do not think that soviet need redesign like that, they need fix all crap that MATRAKA14 write.

A t34 is great imo, for 90 fuel it's a great unit. Soviets are so much fun to play and have alot of options, they argueably don't need to choose a doctrine to stay viable. Unlike the USF which depends on it's commanders.

This all is nothing then one big joke. T-34-76 is usless crap, all soviet options looks like "did i will spam cons or did i will spam maxims?" and soviet palyer can't do nothing without doctrine callin in late game.

Current
kv1
kv2
b4
m42
t34/76
are not fine.


Also
kv8
penals
su85
isu152
is2
mortars
need tweaks.

Wut? Is this a bait?
KV1 is fine. I killed few Jadgtigers, Elephants and tons of other tanks just by spamming KV1.
KV2 is fine.
B4 is not fine. Lower damage to 240/3shells per barrage.
M42 is lost and forgotten.
T34/76 is weak but it's fine.
KV8 is fine.
Penals are mostly fine.
SU85 is damn fine.
ISU152 is fine.
IS2 is fine.
Mortars are fine (apart from 13pop cap of 120mm).

Wut? Is this a bait?

You mean "Cap & Trip Wire is best vet 1!"? Many disagree with this.

Soviet faction is "mostly fine"

They have alot of viable options, but the problem is that T1 is completely dead in the 1v1 meta.

Penals are trash, no point in making them over cons. M3 scout car is iffy.

Hell, even snipers could use some love. Their 2 man low health is honestly a disadvantage now since they share the health, making them very valnuarable to AOE weapons, also whenever one dies its a 90mp loss, so if they keep dying its a massive MP bleed. In comparison the brit/ost sniper has 82 health on one model, making them survive direct nade shots, mortar shots, katy/pwerfer shots, also due to the way 6 man scaling works, soviet units generally do 2x less DPS than their respective counterpart at long range making soviet snipers extremely fragile in comparison.

Seriously, their health should be raised to 60. That would solve alot of problems.

I dunno, either raise their health to 60 or just make make it 1 man 82hp.

B4, m-42 need buffs.

Other than that is fine i think.

You mean "Cap & Trip Wire is best vet 1!"? Many disagree with this.

Trip wire - 10ammo for 1 model down + vision.

How is this a bad trade? I use them all the time.

I won't argue about cap becasue we know it's shit on tanks like IS2 or KV2.