Axis panzershrek spam blobs- i'm losing it

MGs, arty, mines, demo charges, mortars, kiting?

A standard, template no-brain reply from someone who thinks he knows best and is not interested in the OP's thoughts.

Assumption: this is mid game or end game, blobs don't appear until at least mid game. So bear that in mind. Further, this is far worse in non-1v1 games; therefore 1v1 games are excluded from this analysis.

1. MG's (particularly Brits) get shot and uncrewed by a schreck-blob before it can pin them all
2. Mines work well enough when the blob ventures into your territory, but are useless otherwise. The German players will stop Allies advancing by setting up MG42's, the blob will move through the middle towards the allies. If the blob hits a mine and retreats, the allies will be pinned by the MG's when they follow.
3. Demo charges: see (2)
4. Mortars: Mostly useful against suppressed targets; see (1). Otherwise, they get vehicle-flanked or just suffer the same general problem facing blobbing as the rest of the allied army does
5. Kiting: Used to lure blobs into (1), (2), (3) and (4) - and therefore fraught with all the problems inherent to (1), (2), (3) and (4).

So fuck off with the "MGs, arty, mines, demo charges, mortars, kiting" brain farting. And for gods' sake, learn how to fucking think! God, you drag the whole situation down when you spout so thoughtlessly and then everyone has to suffer for it.

Rice my man, the AoE suppression and duration before the model gets pinned makes a huge difference.
I play Brit all the time and i'm in the top 250 so I know what i'm talking about. (I don't consider myself pro or anything near it, just saying).

Well thats good, let me congratulate for you.

However what i said is still valid, and pretty basic imo...

- Schrecks are AT weapons. Counter them with infantry and AI weapons, not light or medium vehicles.
- Volks do not have oorah or smoke nades. Ofcourse they will charge and throw nade.
- No MG can stop 3 squad before they get in nade range. Neither the MG42. That doesnt mean vicker is bad or volks are too strong.

But if you are in the top250 with UKF, you surely know that a playing against a good OST player with mortars, snipers, stugs, panthers and stukas are much harder than playing against a volks spammer who gets fired back to stone age with a single AVRE shell anytime.

As brit you have the vickers, which has good damage but slow suppression. This is problematic as the blob of doom will not stop before they have thrown 3 incendary grenades on your MG, making it totally useless. No one is telling you there is no counter, it's just problematic.

And you have IS, really good IA ( than can be upgraded with 2 brens ) that can screen for your vicker, if you want to stop a 750 + MP with only 280 MP, you will have a baaad time

A standard, template no-brain reply from someone who thinks he knows best and is not interested in the OP's thoughts.

Assumption: this is mid game or end game, blobs don't appear until at least mid game. So bear that in mind. Further, this is far worse in non-1v1 games; therefore 1v1 games are excluded from this analysis.

1. MG's (particularly Brits) get shot and uncrewed by a schreck-blob before it can pin them all
2. Mines work well enough when the blob ventures into your territory, but are useless otherwise. The German players will stop Allies advancing by setting up MG42's, the blob will move through the middle towards the allies. If the blob hits a mine and retreats, the allies will be pinned by the MG's when they follow.
3. Demo charges: see (2)
4. Mortars: Mostly useful against suppressed targets; see (1). Otherwise, they get vehicle-flanked or just suffer the same general problem facing blobbing as the rest of the allied army does
5. Kiting: Used to lure blobs into (1), (2), (3) and (4) - and therefore fraught with all the problems inherent to (1), (2), (3) and (4).

What a fucking joke. If the other player is going to invest all his resources into a push you are expected to invest more than one mg or one mine to counter it. You clearly don't know what kiting with vehicles is, if the only thing you think it's useful for is as bait.

So fuck off with the "MGs, arty, mines, demo charges, mortars, kiting" brain farting. And for gods' sake, learn how to fucking think! God, you drag the whole situation down when you spout so thoughtlessly and then everyone has to suffer for it.

I'm sorry you just wanted to have a whine thread instead of talking about solutions to improve how you play. I'm not sure how recommending good ways to counter a blob is dragging the situation down? Maybe you would prefer me to just yell about nerfing OKW or something? These are all good counters to blobbing, if you can't figure out how to make them work maybe the problem is on you and not the game.

And you have IS, really good IA ( than can be upgraded with 2 brens ) that can screen for your vicker, if you want to stop a 750 + MP with only 280 MP, you will have a baaad time

IS good? you realise for fully upgraded IS you need to spend like 280mp on the squad, 450mp and 50 fuel in upgrades. 120 muni + 40muni for healing and double bren. And even then they get worse damage with vet as their scoped rifles are bugged.

For a vet 5 volk all you need to do is spend 250mp, 90 muni a move and shoot a tank a few times. Don't worry about grenades or healing as that's all free

IS good? you realise for fully upgraded IS you need to spend like 450mp and 50 fuel in upgrades. 120 muni + 40muni for healing and double bren. And even then they get worse damage with vet as their scoped rifles are bugged.

For a vet 5 volk all you need to do is spend 250mp, 90 muni a move and shoot a tank a few times. Don't worry about grenades or healing as that's all free

- Global upgrades

- Best healing in game

- Volks have no IA upgrades, so will lose against IS, and will lose even more again upgraded IS

- Global upgrades

- Best healing in game

- Volks have no IA upgrades, so will lose against IS, and will lose even more again upgraded IS

Global upgrades, yes the all so powerful PIAT and invisible anti tank snare. The bren is DP-28 levels of DPS outside of cover btw, so no easy blob A move like LMG grens/obers

Best healing? You mean like Volksgrenadiers get for free with vet, and the handy free healing at your blob fall back point

No need for a volks AI upgrade when you have double obers, and guess what? they don't need to spend 150mp and 15 fuel for the use of an LMG

Global upgrades, yes the all so powerful PIAT and invisible anti tank snare. The bren is DP-28 levels of DPS outside of cover btw, so no easy blob A move like LMG grens/obers

Best healing? You mean like Volksgrenadiers get for free with vet, and the handy free healing at your blob fall back point

No need for a volks AI upgrade when you have double obers, and guess what? they don't need to spend 150mp and 15 fuel for the use of an LMG

- So use cover ?
- You are biasly forgeting rifle blob i think

- Vet is a requirement, and its not aoe heal, or i missed something ?

- We were talking of volk blob, then suddenly double obers appear xD, so you are talking of a 1400 MP + muni for obers ?

IS good? you realise for fully upgraded IS you need to spend like 280mp on the squad, 450mp and 50 fuel in upgrades. 120 muni + 40muni for healing and double bren. And even then they get worse damage with vet as their scoped rifles are bugged.

from another thread:

But Lemon, Sections fucking suck
No they dont. This one is actually a l2p issue. I know some people like to say That I think everything is a l2p issue, but well positioned Sections can deal with pretty much most infantry in the early game. However, losing even one model can be a huge hit, so be careful about how you engage and position. Youll get better with experience, but in general stick to heavy cover and structures (the basics)

from another thread:

But Lemon, Sections fucking suck
No they dont. This one is actually a l2p issue. I know some people like to say That I think everything is a l2p issue, but well positioned Sections can deal with pretty much most infantry in the early game. However, losing even one model can be a huge hit, so be careful about how you engage and position. Youll get better with experience, but in general stick to heavy cover and structures (the basics)

Great rebuttal karl, pity it doesn't mention anything to remotely counter to what you just quoted.

If you read the thread you would realise Lemon favours the Cromwell rush over 5man, Bren tommies which he says is a waste of fuel

Once you get top 100 you will realise pretty much all top UKF players favour Snipers/AEC/Cromwells to do the bulk of the infantry bleed not your own infantry.

Tell me more about balance when you get there

I honestly don't understand how you can struggle about schreck blobs. Schrecks are more defensive than offensive weapons, it prevents the Axis player from being rushed by vehicules. When I play Axis, I use them to protect my team weapons from light tanks which try to flank them, or, later in the game, my tanks from being rushed by the ennemy's ones.

Schrecks are really bad when it's about attacking vehicules in a offensive way. Seriously, any tank can kite their shots, and if it haves any AI capacity the blob is completly useless. For example, a Sherman loaded with HE does too much damages to be usefull. And, with a good micro, T70s, AECs or US FHT can do the job very well. Shrecks' accuracy is really bad at long range, especially against light vehicules.

And of course the infantry you've fielded is way better that the Axis one, because if the Axis player blobs shrecks he doesn't have infantry with good AI capabilities. Anything is way better than volks at mid game and further. With some mines and democharges you can wipe them (and it just requires you to click on the icon). If you make MG or two and you place them well you've basically won the game.

Schreck blobs are never an issue that I encounter ...

I'm at the point were uninstalling the game sounds like a good idea.

Seeing shit-bucket colonel 100s do nothing all day then wining by spam blobs. Save up all their fuel then break out the tanks. GG. Even god damn beginners can abuse this.

Maxim, Vickers don't suppress hard enough, and limits the game to a few commanders that actually can deal with this cancer. Open maps is usually default Axis win, it's fucking useless to build many HMGs since they are easy to flank and if you dare break out comets or fireflies, here come the heavy tank rush that they have been saving up.

team games that include mostly OKW adversaries are boring, predictable and broken. OKW is literally allowed a jail free card, because now there is no longer any fuel handicap. So unit conservation is not a big deal, but should they survive to reach vet 4 or 5, then it's like the icing on a very bitter cake to swallow.


This is not acceptable game balance.

I honestly don't understand how you can struggle about schreck blobs. Schrecks are more defensive than offensive weapons, it prevents the Axis player from being rushed by vehicules.

Schreck blobs are never an issue that I encounter ...

Rushed by vehicles? what the hell you even talking about?

Panzershrek blob defensive? This statement is so devoid of reason it doesn't even need a rebuttal.

Well thats good, let me congratulate for you.

However what i said is still valid, and pretty basic imo...

- Schrecks are AT weapons. Counter them with infantry and AI weapons, not light or medium vehicles.
- Volks do not have oorah or smoke nades. Ofcourse they will charge and throw nade.
- No MG can stop 3 squad before they get in nade range. Neither the MG42. That doesnt mean vicker is bad or volks are too strong.

But if you are in the top250 with UKF, you surely know that a playing against a good OST player with mortars, snipers, stugs, panthers and stukas are much harder than playing against a volks spammer who gets fired back to stone age with a single AVRE shell anytime.

So basically the recipe to counter the spam blbo is blobbing too? I'll pass. Soviets only reliable infantry killers are all doctrinal, double brens are pathetic and require you to be stationary while the nazi zombie horde doesn't even bother to stop, then comes the flame nade rain.

AVRE needs to be stationary, does it even need to be said how easy it is to avoid?

US need calliope to fight this cheese off and UKF doesn't even have any rockets to abuse.

Faction design logic is second only to DLC whoring in this game. UKF is gonna see rockets in the form of a 5$ commander. So like the USF their weapon of choice Vs a blob will be behind a pay wall.

it's not even pay to win, it's pay to have a chance at fighting back the brain dead starcraft blobs.

God, all of this just makes me miss the days of Ostheer vs USSR only.

Oh NO my 2 rifles/ sections aren't shutting down 4 volks and obers. OP OP. Volks should be rendered useless pls nerf.

Learn to kite with vehicles (its quite easy). Sight with mgs. Place an equal amount of your own infantry in front. And you win. Lol anyone who shreck blobs is a moron. 9/10 they get rolled and lose.

Wanna know why? Volks are inferior to all allied inf aside from rear echelon. Place any amount of allied infantry equal to the amount of volks. And you win.

Oh NO my 2 rifles/ sections aren't shutting down 4 volks and obers. OP OP. Volks should be rendered useless pls nerf.

Learn to kite with vehicles (its quite easy). Sight with mgs. Place an equal amount of your own infantry in front. And you win. Lol anyone who shreck blobs is a moron. 9/10 they get rolled and lose.

Wanna know why? Volks are inferior to all allied inf aside from rear echelon. Place any amount of allied infantry equal to the amount of volks. And you win.

What a load of shite you spouted.

Beginning with a retarded strawman and end with irrelevant advice.

Kite with vehicles? that would be assuming they don't have any.

Allied infantry all better? yeah if you get them in the same concentration levels, but any spam blob pro knows to throw inside the blob a Ober or sturm to force retreats.

Started the thread by saying this is from a team game perspective not the 1v1.


Learn to kite? Until they retreat, reinforce, wash, rinse and do it all over again each time stronger then before. Also KT and Jagtiger say hello.

Placing equal amounts of less mobile army is a stupid retort, if allies need damn HMG and other assorted vehicles and weapons to deal with OKW, how exactly the fuck will you ever manage to have same number parity in every engagement?

The irony is if allies try to blob on their own, here come the rocket barrages and insta crew wipes for the HMGs.

What a load of shite you spouted.

Beginning with a retarded strawman and end with irrelevant advice.

Kite with vehicles? that would be assuming they don't have any.

Allied infantry all better? yeah if you get them in the same concentration levels, but any spam blob pro knows to throw inside the blob a Ober or sturm to force retreats.

Started the thread by saying this is from a team game perspective not the 1v1.


Learn to kite? Until they retreat, reinforce, wash, rinse and do it all over again each time stronger then before. Also KT and Jagtiger say hello.

Placing equal amounts of less mobile army is a stupid retort, if allies need damn HMG and other assorted vehicles and weapons to deal with OKW, how exactly the fuck will you ever manage to have same number parity in every engagement?

The irony is if allies try to blob on their own, here come the rocket barrages and insta crew wipes for the HMGs.

http://coh2chart.com/

pfffft

Problem is Volks are way too versatile. Schreked and at vet 3+ and in blobs they can melt infantry and armour really quickly and require almost no skill at all to use.

A-move OP, Relic nerf.

But seriously they should have had AT infantry as completely separate squads of 3 or 4, very poor AI to the point of being defenseless if not protected with dedicated AI infantry. That would sort of help the Volks blob problem because a) it'd be harder to vet up AT squads and b) you can focus fire depending on what you need to kill.

As it stands vetted schrek volks blobs have schreks evenly distributed between them so that even focus firing isn't that effective.

Problem is Volks are way too versatile. Schreked and at vet 3+ and in blobs they can melt infantry and armour really quickly and require almost no skill at all to use.

A-move OP, Relic nerf.

But seriously they should have had AT infantry as completely separate squads of 3 or 4, very poor AI to the point of being defenseless if not protected with dedicated AI infantry. That would sort of help the Volks blob problem because a) it'd be harder to vet up AT squads and b) you can focus fire depending on what you need to kill.

As it stands vetted schrek volks blobs have schreks evenly distributed between them so that even focus firing isn't that effective.

Making a Tier 2 (meaning ISG tier for me) unit like "tank hunters", that come equipped with 2 shrecks by default, having verry poor AI capabilities while costing an appropriate amount of manpower would be the only choice if we consider removing shrecks from volks and give them other upgrade.

Early-middle game anti vehicle counter for OKW will translate into raketen+Puma combo (if OKW player starts with T3 building) or into raketen+tank hunters combo (if OKW player starts with T2 building).

That would be probably an interesting way to change OKW, but I sincerely doubt we will see that in the official game. Maybe in a mode.

Making a Tier 2 (meaning ISG tier for me) unit like "tank hunters", that come equipped with 2 shrecks by default, having verry poor AI capabilities while costing an appropriate amount of manpower would be the only choice if we consider removing shrecks from volks and give them other upgrade.

Early-middle game anti vehicle counter for OKW will translate into raketen+Puma combo (if OKW player starts with T3 building) or into raketen+tank hunters combo (if OKW player starts with T2 building).

That would be probably an interesting way to change OKW, but I sincerely doubt we will see that in the official game. Maybe in a mode.

Spawning with 2 shreks sounds way too good. How about 1 shreck. And put in side tech that unlocks mp44s for volks and AT nades for the shreck squad built from the med HQ. Squad is 4 men with 3x mp40s 320-340 mp.

Spawning with 2 shreks sounds way too good.

Nope it doesn't if they would cost like 400 mp.

So basically the recipe to counter the spam blbo is blobbing too? I'll pass. Soviets only reliable infantry killers are all doctrinal, double brens are pathetic and require you to be stationary while the nazi zombie horde doesn't even bother to stop, then comes the flame nade rain.

Again IS is better than Volks. UKF and USF infantry will be epic on veterancy. Way better than OKW. Your infantry can be upgraded to AI, while OKW can be upgraded with schrecks only. If you dont feed them with tanks they wont even get vet fast.

AVRE needs to be stationary, does it even need to be said how easy it is to avoid?

Well, daaaah! Sturmtigers too, Stukas shells needs time to hit the ground too... guess what?! even panzerschrecks cant be fired on the move. Still AVRE is an epic weapon to lock down VPs. I use it every time i can.

US need calliope to fight this cheese off and UKF doesn't even have any rockets to abuse.

Sure i miss rocket artillery, but AVRE always got more kill than my walking stukas with their lucky stirkes.



Ofcourse there are a couple of things i dont like in UKF. Like the infantry reinforcement speed and the inaccurate doctrinal artillery. Anyway, if i would change something it would be the stock 4 men IS squads price. Its 280 just like when they are upgraded to 5 men. I think 260 for IS would be more realistic, and once the squad is upgraded to 5 men, they should be 280. Their price would be closer to Volks aswell..