Interesting Results from 4v4AT Round 1

Our allies beat their axis. Their allies beat our axis.

None of us are 4v4 experts but allies seem really really favored this patch in all modes really. AEC with Soviet t2 means even a puma struggles to counter the AEC. Maxims shut down OKW completely. Then proper usf play can walk all over Ost. Plus the m20 is 4s is even more nutty than in 1s because retreating takes about 5 minutes so there are a ton of opportunities for squad wipes. Then late game is just filled with mortar pits protected by calliopes, is2s, Isus, 6lbers, etc.

Plus the 17lber Isu combo feels pretty uncounterable given an even game up until that point. Oh and of course artillery cover insta winning all tank battles.

Don't mean to QQ just trying to tell it like it is from my limited 4v4 experience this patch.

I could probably theory craft some crazy axis build to counter allies but meh. Would rather focus on ESL and 2v2 tourney for now.

To be fair you didn't do jackshit in the 4v4's game on either team

Allies won every game by a large margin.

I think we need to revisit balance - axis op anymore certainly doesn't seem true.

Thoughts?

with pwerfer and calliope out of the equation, i think the balance inequality feels mostly negliable... at least most negliable since forever. there are plenty of other bs like mine squad wipe and okw flak base rendering all aerial ability null and frp but yeah...

p.s. we were majority allies players and one of plays axis once a week. so if we had two axis players not bail out on us, we would have kicked asses of Jove and Giap a like

p.p.s. just joking of course, the reason we lost was we felt insecure about our axis play and overthought our strategy without plan B nor considering the topography etc etc, which led us to dig our own graves once things did not go in our way. and RUCKAcl played well.

To be fair you didn't do jackshit in the 4v4's game on either team

Guess having the highest kill count on my team in game 2 is meaningless EleGiggle

Win as a team, lose as a team. Maybe I got carried, maybe I didn't. Measuring epeens within a team is a good way to stop getting along/playing together as a team.

Please just stay on topic and discuss the OP?

Vs allies that know how to play this game you have to work alot harder as Axis in 4s. In theory allies will always win early game and Axis will always win late game.

Think of the team as one unit, like Jesulin said, Axis is like a fist and Allies are like a giant net surrounding you.

It all depends on holding out in the early game.

The whole axis always OP should probably gtfo, because its getting really old. Theres no grounds to it anymore.

We have posts of 3 team members from different teams (USF All-Stars, COHBROS and RtN), interesting what is opinion of other 5.

Guess having the highest kill count on my team in game 2 is meaningless EleGiggle

Win as a team, lose as a team. Maybe I got carried, maybe I didn't. Measuring epeens within a team is a good way to stop getting along/playing together as a team.

Please just stay on topic and discuss the OP?

I love how you went back into to the replay to prove to me I'm wrong. Also have the most kills isn't saying much dude. Also the reason your team lost was because you had no clue on how to advance as axis. Terrible doctrine choice and it is all topped up some amazing allied game play and a shitty map totally favors those in the north side. That and Allies being a little better in 4v4 topped it off for a fresh can of whoopass

I love how you went back into to the replay to prove to me I'm wrong. Also have the most kills isn't saying much dude. Also the reason your team lost was because you had no clue on how to advance as axis. Terrible doctrine choice and it is all topped up some amazing allied game play and a shitty map totally favors those in the north side. That and Allies being a little better in 4v4 topped it off for a fresh can of whoopass

Man, lot of hostility for someone that probably couldn't stand 10 minutes in a 1v1 against the dude hes trying to shit talk.

The whole axis always OP should probably gtfo, because its getting really old. Theres no grounds to it anymore.

Jagdtiger and Elefant have no counter - there's your ground.

Jagdtiger and Elefant have no counter - there's your ground.

arty cover?

IMHO, axis is easier to team carry in 4v4s (aka a player can make bigger impact by himslef) than allies. The majority of 4v4s out there are randoms with mybe a few buddies fighting together. Allies are stronger together than axis are together. Axis in 4v4 are safe to play passively and draw out into late game whereas the allies have to be focused on working together to shut down the axis fast before superior teching and vetting kicks in.

Allies won every game. Even teams that weren't highly proficient with allies still won.

We need to take a good hard look at balance because every game was about under 30 minutes and a stomp of the axis teams.

Proof is in the pudding and you'd be crazy not to acknowledge a trend like this.

That's because all those teams as I mentioned are either mainly allies team players, or not experienced with 4v4 at all. Even your team which lost to Focus, plus simply go to ladders and check their allies stats and you'll see you def did something wrong to lose to them to be honest

Axis sucks.

BritsArtilleryCover + MarkTarget + Colliope + P47/Rangers. That's what commanders we choose when playing 4s Allies. It works very well with USF infantry blobs. We usually built Stuart + newAEC + M5QUAD to push in mid games. The Wehr suffers alot from well used light vehicle rush while the OKW suffers from Katyusha/Colliope barrage.

Then GG.

Axis is better vs noobs who don't use light vehicles well, flank or combined arms. But at high level play where the L2P is usually taken out, the spotlight belongs to allies. They've got a slight edge in 1v1 and 2v2. Most games end in early mid in 1v1-2v2.

I love how you went back into to the replay to prove to me I'm wrong. Also have the most kills isn't saying much dude. Also the reason your team lost was because you had no clue on how to advance as axis. Terrible doctrine choice and it is all topped up some amazing allied game play and a shitty map totally favors those in the north side. That and Allies being a little better in 4v4 topped it off for a fresh can of whoopass

I don't even have the replay.

I just check match stats after games to try and find areas to improve in.

Why are you trying so hard to bait me? What's your problem with me? I was giving my opinion/experience (admittedly limited) relating to the OP and this is what I get?

That's because all those teams as I mentioned are either mainly allies team players, or not experienced with 4v4 at all. Even your team which lost to Focus, plus simply go to ladders and check their allies stats and you'll see you def did something wrong to lose to them to be honest

So every team in the tournament, including SoE (who were rank 1 with both factions 4v4 at the time with 90%+ win rate) Focus and TATUS are bad at Axis?

Not sure that makes a whole lot of sense.

didn't know there was a tournament. did everyone who could open with MGs?

So every team in the tournament, including SoE (who were rank 1 with both factions 4v4 at the time with 90%+ win rate) Focus and TATUS are bad at Axis?

Not sure that makes a whole lot of sense.

No, SoE are not bad axis team, they are actually very good. But I watched the game, and I believe (with all my respect to them) they made some mistakes which convinced me that they could have done much better, that's for sure, from the other games I've seen they played, in the past, trust me. Most importantly because they have (prob) not practiced as their team together as often as they used to.

Focus is a very good axis game, but TATUS is a much better allies team, regardless of any balance (the team which has 128 team)
And about TATUS, I must say I've not seen many of their axis games, but I have seen their opponent (focus) allies games (you can simply check their stats, and you will see what I mean)

Allies won every game by a large margin.

I think we need to revisit balance - axis op anymore certainly doesn't seem true.

Thoughts?

The DLC commanders have changed late game. OKW has some cheese but all of the UKF premium commanders have game-changing cheese (air strikes, artillery) available by around 12 cp. USF has only one commander that overperforms, but I'll bet that every USF player used it exclusively in the tournament. All of this make it difficult to do the meta of a year ago of just parking a couple of JT's by the VP's with some panzerfusiliers to spot for them.

Panzerwerfers are also cheesy, but all they mean is that you stay away from heavy team builds and don't garrison buildings once they hit the field. They don't seem to lock down VP's like Calliopes do. Two Calliopes can make it really difficult to axis to neutralize and cap a VP. I'll bet that many of the tournament games had up to four Calliopes which make axis infantry play really difficult (and the 1919 being in the same commander doesn't help).

A year ago, it seemed like all you had to do was survive the first 30 minutes as axis and you were almost guaranteed a victory. It certainly doesn't feel like that now, and sometimes feels like late game is better for allies.

I could probably theory craft some crazy axis build to counter allies but meh. Would rather focus on ESL and 2v2 tourney for now.

I would like to see the theory craft some crazy axis build, because it was interesting to see how you used the mortar pits very effectively when you played the Brits. You could probably do the same with the mortar halftracks (Spearhead doctrine).