A way to nerf calliope without overnerf

The constant QQ on here lately about the calliope has got me thinking; how can we nerf this thing without making it useless?

Cuz a nerf is coming. The whine is too stronk. So, as unbiased as possible I will suggest some nerfs:

The main complaints are

-lethality

Everyone swears this thing is firing 30 demo charges when it fires. Agreed. It's also the only USF unit that can DELETE cancerous blobs or turtles once the late late game rolls around. Especially in bigger modes. And this is perfectly fine IMO.

So before you start bitching and moaning at me
Werfer is just as bullshit lethality wise
Stuka is just as bullshit lethal vs support weapons
Katyusha should be buffed to match these

"Well cookies, we have all this Insta wiping arty! This sucks!!!!one!!" GOOD. Artillery is he main cause for death during WWII. It was a GREAT INVENTION.

Or else infantry concentrations aka blobs are a pure bitch to kill in this game. Rocket arty is a GOOD THING. Don't gimp it. Be careful what you wish for.

Well This brings me to my next point

-durability
All rocket Artie's are and should be balanced by durability. They are vehicles with damn rockets on them.
The calliope is literally the only USF unit that is more durable than its axis counterpart. And it should stay this way. Get over it axis fanboys.
HOWEVER. A few nerfs are in order

Right now it has the same armor and hp as a normal Sherman. Obviously, it's a tank with rockets and rocket fuel attached. If any of you played war thunder ground forces with the calliope, you'll know the calliope is extremely easy to "ammo rack" killing it instantly if it's racks are hit.

So I think

Armor ahould stay the same
Hp to 360!!!! Why? so ITS A 3 hit kill to ALL sources including something cheap and lower damage like a Puma, or something low DPS like a lone Panther.

so the USF player can be punished/traded effectively. Too many times I've seen someone send a puma, or a panther after callieOPIE only to fail epically.

Still more durable than Stuka, but not twice as durable. We can all agree 640 hp is ridiculous.

And I suggest another change. Right now, it always loses its main gun when it drops to around ~40% hp.

This should be changed to 80%!! Hp.

Which means, if a calliope isn't full health it cannot fire. It means, shooting t once should force the USF player to fix its racks to full health before firing.

This Critical cannot be repaired by repair critical because it's "catastrophic".
(This same change should be applied to all USF vehicles; repair critical shouldn't be able to fix "catastrophic" damage like destroyed engines or immobilization ,including ruptured rocket tubes.)


One final note on lethality though:
If we insist on nerfing it and other rocket arty lethality, give infantry (not snipers)-50% damage modifier to explosions on retreat. So retreating can save you from these rocket arties

Agreed? No over nerfs, unit still powerful vs inattentive BLOBBERS and forward retreat point abuse as they should be!

I like the ideas. Both together though, it's on verge of over nerf. But maybe it would work well still. I think realistically hp should be a little bit higher than you suggest since it is a regular tank. I would instead consider keeping all stats but only allowing one at a time max population.

360hp too low. At least 400.

I agree - it's lethality is fine, its more that it cant die.. if it was katy HP it wud all be fine.. please remember its 140 fuel

360hp too low. At least 400.

The point is all rocket arty is vulnerable and balanced because they can die to a cheapish unit driving up and killing it quickly if you don't protect it

360 makes it a 3 hit kill for puma, p4, Panther, shrek blob whatever you want to dive and kill it with. A pak43 or JT also can't just snipe it and wtfbbq it like it can a Scott or Priest.(truu story)


It's not like, a 222 or luchs will be able to kill it either cause it still has 180 armor which can bounce shots from all the aforementioned units, giving it more than effective 360 hp unless you're having a bad day with RNGJESUS

400 makes the puma a bad counter when it should be THE counter.

I think the best way to nerf the Caliope is reduce the health of OSt sniper move OKW tracks in the base sector and do something with as Luvnest says EACH SQUAD HAS A SHRECK when he plays as OKW.

And would be nice to give ALies better antitank options at the same time reduce AT options of Axis


THats it dismiss

I feel like I live in an alternate universe because all I see is axis QQ about calliope when even using it in my loadout, my partner and I are on a 6 loss streak and can't seem to catch a break as double USF D:

I clearly have become too old to play this game since. I turned 25, my life is over, I will be booking into a retirement village.

that's fine as long as i can kill KV-2 with my direct fire rockets from 5m away (fuck trying to use those as actual artillery in WT)

making the calliope have some kind of crit disadvantage (like the stiger and jtiger) is another possibility but i'm not convinced that would be effective, especially with USF repair rates.

If it's nerfed HP wise then I think it should be dropped to about 110 fuel. The Calliope is most effective when it's right next to the front lines. If you remove it's high durability then you reduce it's effectiveness in a key way; you wouldn't be able to safely employ it in an aggressive manner.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKlnjwzT1IruAZFb0EA-5pQ

The Calliope is a mistake, they should have just gave USF the Xylophone rocket truck, it is essentially the American equivalent to the Katyusha and Panzerwerfer in CoH2. The Xylophone mounted 8 rockets on 2 launchers for a total of 16 per truck. The Calliope mounted 60 rockets on a Sherman tank. Repeating mistakes like the Sturmtiger, Relic decided to add a rare super-weapon and now has to figure out how to balance this super-weapon between the sometimes overlapping lines of overpowered and useless.

I guess my suggestion would be to give it effectively the stats of a Grenadier's Rifle Grenade; since it's firing 60 of them in a quick-yet-sustained barrage, the damage comes from the crazy saturation and area-denial. The rockets would appear laughably weak compared to their real-life counterparts, but Relic's already decided to add this unit as opposed to the better balanced option, so you have to make due with what you've got.

Give usf non doctrine mines and you can do whatever the f*** you want..

Seriously though, consideration should be given to other units a faction can make when determining spec for mobile arty.

Sov,okw and ost for example can build arty and get heavy tank and lay mines to protect it.

What usf got? A sherman? A jackson.

If ost flank with puma and panther alot of shit can die real quick.

I dont use calli much in 1v1 as it is very situational and i usually want something from other doctrines.

2v2 and up i can see it being Opish but reducing health seems lazy solution given its doctrinal arty...

Edit - before some moron brings up m20 mines, undestand when i said no mines i meant no infantry mines. Ie not needing to make a building then a vehicle.

Get rid of the EARLY, cheap, easy, spammable shrek blob and we maybe can talk about a LATE game 140 Fuel counter unit.

FFS...really? Whining about the one doc Cali when OKW has TONS of non-doctrine OP BS?

It's not the blob-killing capability that bothers me. It's the insta-gib-all-your-support-weapons ability. Same thing with Panzerwerfer, really.

Also, I don't remember the Calliope being overpowered back in the first game. So it can be balanced.

I strongly disagree with your suggestion.
I believe most of you have missed the point with the Calliope.
The USF (and the brits)got exactly 0/Zero/Nada/Nothing to match the axis late game when it comes to arty - none doctorinal.

Thus, the USF received the Calliope.
The Sherman Calliope, cannont fire its main gun (Though it should) - and is very expensive compared to its counter-parts.

Calliope
MP:380
Fuel:140

panzerwerfer
MP:360
Fuel:85
HP:160

Stuka:
MP:390
Fuel:100
HP:320


Now, considering the Axis need no doc choice for long range mobile arty (And heavy tanks, but that's a different story.)

Thus, the calliope need no nerfs, it could use buffs.

That been said, you have been touching a subject about the infantry blobbing.
Here's a different approach:
Create a new in-game aura for infantry.
If infantry of same army are too close to each other, inflict a negative aura upon them - increases chances to be hit.

Reason: Reality wise ever since the machine gun was invented - large clumps of infantry were always the preferred target. Thus making more bullets hit their marks.

Reference for amusement purposes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82RTzi5Vt7w

On a side note:
"If any of you played war thunder ground forces with the calliope, you'll know the calliope is extremely easy to "ammo rack" killing it instantly if it's racks are hit."

This is a RTS game though.
If the game would have been realistic, the Tiger 2 would never show upon the battlefield.
The panther and the tiger would have over 50% engine breakdowns and would have been abandoned the second they hit the battlefield.
The Axis got NO air supremacy.
In fact, they lost somewhere around April 1944, the introduction of the P-51.
Ammo racks caused a lot of tanks to explode.
And the Tiger, while it had a great gun, had really week floor, top and rear armor.
Up to a point that a M8 Greyhound three-shot K.O a tiger.
Story in Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M8_Greyhound

"During the Battle of St. Vith in the Battle of the Bulge, an M8 of Troop B, 87th Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron was able to destroy a German Tiger I heavy tank. The M8 fired three 37 mm rounds through the relatively thin rear armor of the Tiger from only 25 yd (23 m), setting it on fire.[4]"

But that's enough history for one day.
It's a game, let it be one

make it killable in 1 shot, just like any arty ingame

It's not the blob-killing capability that bothers me. It's the insta-gib-all-your-support-weapons ability. Same thing with Panzerwerfer, really.

Also, I don't remember the Calliope being overpowered back in the first game. So it can be balanced.

As you alluded to, Panzerwerfer and Stuka do that regularly...since the game came out! Oh noes! Axis now has to start moving their support weapons and scatter infantry like mad when they hear the rockets coming. =/

And that's the Cali's job, to soften up fixed support-weapons areas.

You missed the point....The calliope would still be a calliope.... It would just have actual weakness inspired by logic.

Yes it's a tank and should be more durable than the other rocket halftrack and trucks.

It's also a tank strapped with 30 high explosive rockets on a massive rocket rack. Logically it would be easy to disable this with a stray shot, and easy to blow it up compared to a normal Sherman. No need for a history argument, it's basic logic.

It would still be the most durable rocket arty and lethal as all hell. It just wouldn't be blatantly unbalanced. Please don't tell me you think the 640 hp 180 armor rocket arty is ok because that's the main focus of my suggested nerfs.

The cost compassion is irrelevant because you don't have to tech for it. The werfer costs a billion fuel to get out in a faction that struggles early and mid, especially vs USF.

The Stuka comes fast but isn't as lethal. Again, USF is so strong early and mid that you can get away with no major either unless you're facing a KT or tiger.

The calliope can also hit and wipe from way beyond "point" blank. It's not like you HAVE to shotgun it to wipe everything.

So long as the same "crit shots" are applied to any unit with rockets on top.

And it needs the HP, IMO, as much AT that Axis has. Weren't you arguing the M8 could use a buff? Besides, it's a Sherman tank! If it needs weak armor, then they should have made it the truck, as stated above. It's bad enough the .50 is the weakest MG in the game.

Heck, IMO, bring back the Cali's main gun like it originally had in CoH1 (before it was nerfed away).

It's barrage does take some "skill" though for the moving blob, with it's firing and aiming delay, the operator needs to lead correctly.

So long as the same "crit shots" are applied to any unit with rockets on top.

And it needs the HP, IMO, as much AT that Axis has. Weren't you arguing the M8 could use a buff? Besides, it's a Sherman tank! If it needs weak armor, then they should have made it the truck, as stated above. It's bad enough the .50 is the weakest MG in the game.

Heck, IMO, bring back the Cali's main gun like it originally had in CoH1 (before it was nerfed away).

It's barrage does take some "skill" though for the moving blob, with it's firing and aiming delay, the operator needs to lead correctly.

Crit shots? well werfer and Katy die in one hit, Stuka in 2.

You missed the point....The calliope would still be a calliope.... It would just have actual weakness inspired by logic.

Yes it's a tank and should be more durable than the other rocket halftrack and trucks.

It's also a tank strapped with 30 high explosive rockets on a massive rocket rack. Logically it would be easy to disable this with a stray shot, and easy to blow it up compared to a normal Sherman. No need for a history argument, it's basic logic.

It would still be the most durable rocket arty and lethal as all hell. It just wouldn't be blatantly unbalanced. Please don't tell me you think the 640 hp 180 armor rocket arty is ok because that's the main focus of my suggested nerfs.

The cost compassion is irrelevant because you don't have to tech for it. The werfer costs a billion fuel to get out in a faction that struggles early and mid, especially vs USF.

The Stuka comes fast but isn't as lethal. Again, USF is so strong early and mid that you can get away with no major either unless you're facing a KT or tiger.

The calliope can also hit and wipe from way beyond "point" blank. It's not like you HAVE to shotgun it to wipe everything.

Now as some people such as Durkalina would say... SCREW LOGIC Kappa I do agree with this though.