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A way to nerf calliope without overnerf

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11 Jan 2016, 15:00 PM
#62
avatar of whitesky00

Posts: 468

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 05:21 AMJadame!


Counter play of doing suicide all-ins into at gun walls and mines? We already had it with ISU.



Yet you propose exactly that with -50% damage from rockets on retreat.



BS. Infantry dies to mines on retreat paths, it dies to demos, it dies to light vehicles and overextension, it dies to flanks, grenades and RNG mortar shells, it dies to tanks, it just dies. Everybody loses their squad in a course of games, and vetted and double upgraded squads should be a factor in late game, not something which would be erased in one barrage.



You wish calliope was only good against infantry. It good against everything short of tanks and wipes OKW trucks in 2 barrages on med range, exactly what kat where doing when relic decided to overbuff it beyond any considerable reason. And together with werfer it wipes blobs and single squads alike, causing tremendous amounts of bleed by very little effort.

You must make counters work by using them right, which is not the case with werfer and calliope.


I disagree. I actually just played against you as OKW and you were spamming Calliopes. Sure, you were shooting 2 salvos against my Schwerer and Med truck all game... and I just double sturms to repair it all game. It would take 3 salvos consecutively in my opinion to fully destroy a medtruck/flak truck. And, what's the cooldown? I believe it's pretty long. 3 calliopes cost more than a KT...

If a health nerf is coming to the calliope. I also demand a price nerf. It's fuel cost costs more than any non-doctrinal USF tank lol. Drop it to Stuka's cost and nerf HP fine...

Fuel costs:
Panzerwerfer - 85
Katyusha - 85
Stuka - 100
Calliope - 140
11 Jan 2016, 15:12 PM
#63
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 14:12 PMKatitof

That is relevant how?
You don't plan on getting any armor heavier then stuart for the whole game?
That'll work fine for you, I'm sure #jesulinvsbartongame.


Timing bruh...
11 Jan 2016, 15:16 PM
#64
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Timing bruh...


Have you ever teched so slow that you didn't managed to get T3 before 10cp?
Probably if you went for BARs, nades, T1, T2, M20 and double Stuart.

Usually you can have T3 up between 6 and 8 CP, so your timing argument is completely insane, unless you plan to spam calliopes.

Not much reason not to tech for USF, you can do it, but unless you want to lean on M10s and dozers its crippling on the long run, which let me remind you again, was Jesulins doom recently.
11 Jan 2016, 15:33 PM
#65
avatar of Jadame!

Posts: 1122

Sure, you were shooting 2 salvos against my Schwerer and Med truck all game... and I just double sturms to repair it all game.


2 is enough, although you need to do it on med range. I don't know what game you exactly talking about, and assume one i lost with amazing teammates, but trust me, if it was an even game, your trucks would not stand even a slightest chance of survival.

Barrage is 100sec cd btw, probably reduced by vet, but i don't know for sure.
11 Jan 2016, 15:50 PM
#66
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

what za fu, haven't read even one post here, yes not even the main post. So, just listen, listen to OKW lover!

-reduce HP 640 to 120 because i want to take it down with a single schreck shot
-reduce rocked intervall from fast to 1 rocked every 5 seconds and overall to 3 rockets per barrage
-reduce armor from 180 to 4.5 because kuebel armor is OP why don't make calliope armor same OP?
-increase cooldown, becaus whatevery cooldown it is now it's just op, trust me
-reduce movement speed because of unit push, was also op for OKW trucks
-remove crush because building crush is lame
-increase price, 140 fuel, wtf it's almost for free!
-increase cp requirement, Jagdtiger at 15 cp why not calliOPe 15 cp?
-make it unlockable through tech (Major required)

So i think i have listed here some minor and slide adjustments, i am sure unit will be balanced after those changes given to it.

OKW lover approved, no fanboims :thumb: :hansWUT:
11 Jan 2016, 15:50 PM
#67
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403

People are forgetting that if you go calliope first you will never have a major out in a reasonable time which means: NO TANKS/FRP, unless you control both fuels which is gg no matter which faction you play.

11 Jan 2016, 16:09 PM
#68
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

People are forgetting that if you go calliope first you will never have a major out in a reasonable time which means: NO TANKS/FRP, unless you control both fuels which is gg no matter which faction you play.



Not 1v1 is the only gamemode...

One player goes for Major and tanks, while the other player goes for calliopes.
11 Jan 2016, 16:13 PM
#69
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Not 1v1 is the only gamemode...

One player goes for Major and tanks, while the other player goes for calliopes.

In 2s USF is equal to OKW and above that its axis stomps over everyone else, so I don't see issues there :romeoPro:

Plus, single player won't stop armored assault in 2 to 1 proportion vs superior armor.
11 Jan 2016, 16:14 PM
#70
avatar of Cafo

Posts: 245

Or they could just increase the scatter so its not an okw base sniper on cooldown.
11 Jan 2016, 16:15 PM
#71
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273


One player goes for Major and tanks, while the other player goes for calliopes.


In this particular, both Axis opponents go Tanks and set as their mission to hunt down and destroy the artillery/AT, depending what is more annoying. You know, use team-play, like your opponents, to actually outplay that particular USF combo.

Axis should not have every win easily delivered on a plate :/
11 Jan 2016, 16:15 PM
#72
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 16:13 PMKatitof

In 2s USF is equal to OKW and above that its axis stomps over everyone else, so I don't see issues there :romeoPro:

Plus, single player won't stop armored assault in 2 to 1 proportion vs superior armor.


At your level it is true. :romeoMug:

Too bad your scenario doesn't apply to 2v2 AT or to a certain USF clan. :romeoPro:
11 Jan 2016, 16:21 PM
#73
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617



In this particular, both Axis opponents go Tanks and set as their mission to hunt down and destroy the artillery/AT, depending what is more annoying. You know, use team-play, like your opponents, to actually outplay that particular USF combo.

Axis should not have every win easily delivered on a plate :/


That's why USF has the option to spam ATGs (too bad they are next to useless) with zooks (Captain + Zooks) and at-snares. Drop 1-2 M36 or M10s into the mix and you'll see axis armor melting before they can kill the calliopes (which takes 4 shot).

After such AT, no sane axis player dares to raid behind enemy lines.
11 Jan 2016, 16:25 PM
#74
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

It does sound to me of hypothetical scenarios of you being outplayed. You could easily replace every unit from your description by an Axis counterpart, and get exactly the same scenario from an Allied perspective (but cheaper and still more efficient).
11 Jan 2016, 17:15 PM
#75
avatar of whitesky00

Posts: 468

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 15:33 PMJadame!


2 is enough, although you need to do it on med range. I don't know what game you exactly talking about, and assume one i lost with amazing teammates, but trust me, if it was an even game, your trucks would not stand even a slightest chance of survival.

Barrage is 100sec cd btw, probably reduced by vet, but i don't know for sure.


We are talking about 2 barrage calliope wiping/destroying OKW HQs. Now you're talking about allies to finish the job. Well, I can have amazing allies to defend too! The point is I do not believe 2 Calliope barrages will instant wipe a HQ. Maybe you are right at closer range but that's a 280 fuel investment with no mobile AT vehicle. I do not think it's OP. It's good for punishing blobs just like the panzerwerfer.
11 Jan 2016, 17:21 PM
#76
avatar of whitesky00

Posts: 468



That's why USF has the option to spam ATGs (too bad they are next to useless) with zooks (Captain + Zooks) and at-snares. Drop 1-2 M36 or M10s into the mix and you'll see axis armor melting before they can kill the calliopes (which takes 4 shot).

After such AT, no sane axis player dares to raid behind enemy lines.


LOL, how much fuel is that?

2 calliopes: 280 fuel
1-2 M36: 125-250 fuel
M10: 90 fuel

If i was an Axis player up against that, I'd have an ELEPHANT/JT/KT by then along with PANZERWERFER/STUKA and or shrek blob to flank M36 AND CALLIOPE LOL. Or doctrinal arty.

Really, really poor analogy and scenario. If you've reached a point where you have all those vehicles and you are holding a defensive position, it means you already lost at the beginning of the game.
11 Jan 2016, 17:21 PM
#77
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

Hey if Cookiez is suggesting a Calliope nerf you know it's going to be an issue. :foreveralone:

I agree HP should be reduced for the Calliope since in it's current state it would take a serious mistake from your opponent for the calliope to die. :foreveralone:
11 Jan 2016, 17:32 PM
#78
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 05:21 AMJadame!


Counter play of doing suicide all-ins into at gun walls and mines? We already had it with ISU.
360 hp would make it die to something as trash as a well flanked' puma. 70-80 fuel to counter a 140 ALL IN arty piece.

Have you heard of the concept of trading? It's like you believe units should never die unless the user goes completely full retard.

The ISU had 1 billion HP and a gun that fired and wiped every 7 secs, compete with Stalinium front armor and cheap NON DOC mines and guards. Could only touched by elefant.

The calliope I'm suggesting would be less durable than a luchs, and would be "protected" by OP USF mines and anti tank.
And lol at USF at wall. One player buy elefant Panthers and pak wall for jacksons other buy werfer for "USF at wall" . Recon. Call Stuka CAS. Drive directly at calliopes with everything. Blitz away. GG.



Yet you propose exactly that with -50% damage from rockets on retreat.
i proposed that because certain people here have a problem with rocket arty being lethal. My preferred solution is leaving it alone lethality wise.


BS. Infantry dies to mines on retreat paths, it dies to demos, it dies to light vehicles and overextension, it dies to flanks, grenades and RNG mortar shells, it dies to tanks, it just dies. Everybody loses their squad in a course of games, and vetted and double upgraded squads should be a factor in late game, not something which would be erased in one barrage.
BS, losing squads to mines on retreat is a combo of bad luck, bad usage of infantry, and blatant over extension without a sweeper.

Flanks? Grenades? Leleleleelele.
Light vehicles do not squad wipe a damn thing late game. Shouldn't wipe anything early game unless you don't know timings. Aka when to pre-retreat.
and neither do demos unless again you refuse to buy something as basic as a sweeper. Or you're USF, Brits, whatever and don't even have demos to begin with.
The only things that comes close to wiping infantry "regularly" without a huge user mistake is tank shots, especially heavy tanks, and support guns(and the rocket arty you want nerfed into the next demension LUL)

At worst you lose a squad per barrage every minute or so if you're not blobbing. And even the OP werfer can be dodged sometimes if you hear it.




You wish calliope was only good against infantry. It good against everything short of tanks and wipes OKW trucks in 2 barrages on med range, exactly what kat where doing when relic decided to overbuff it beyond any considerable reason. And together with werfer it wipes blobs and single squads alike, causing tremendous amounts of bleed by very little effort.
ok so it's Good vs what it's supposed to be good vs....including equally cancerous turtling. What is your point? And don't 2 priests do the same thing to an hq truck for cheaper??

You must make counters work by using them right, which is not the case with werfer and calliope.

What are even the counters to artillery wipe machines.? I haven't played a billion hours so I wouldn't know. A arty hunter, an off map, or counter battery.The calliope can't be hunted because it's too durable. It can't be Counter battery because it's too durable. It can kinda be hit pretty hard by Stuka loiter CAS off map even right now with 640 hp..My main argument is for it to be way less durable. Which would make it beyond counter able based on the concept of trading. Assuming everything goes to shit and you lose your hunter vehicle.
11 Jan 2016, 18:07 PM
#79
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2016, 14:12 PMKatitof

That is relevant how?
You don't plan on getting any armor heavier then stuart for the whole game?
That'll work fine for you, I'm sure #jesulinvsbartongame.


Jesulin decided alone to float 400 fuel, huge mistake :O

11 Jan 2016, 18:19 PM
#80
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

this thing is way to damn expensive to be nerfed.. and its a doctrine. if anything buff katy to make it just as powerful as the stuka and pwerfer
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