USF light vehicle abuse disheartening new/average players

Well that "no fun" teached me quite fast to:

- Predict enemy fuel consumption/usage
- Predict enemy fuel income

you dont need to see the future to know that usf is going for a light vehicle.


- If i don't have a clue of enemy fuel income/usage i'll build pak asap

against a good opponent the pak wont do much good than use your pop cap and take away your mp that you desperately need in the early game.


- Mine, first 50 munition should go to mine. preferably on road near enemy base.

sweepers and avoid roads.

- 2 grens can push light vehicles to retreat, as pak and 1 gren can kill a light vehicle with ease.

2 grens will chase the light vehicle to their base and bleed mp meanwhile, and then it just comes back for more.


- When in doubt build some more mines.

again sweepers and you need your muni for upgrades.

snipers
bofors
mortar pit
churchills
typhoons
that stupid stun/smoke ability from the brits

are much much worse

valid points, but they have nothing to do with the topic.

All the more reason why I volksblob against USF. Literally every other few options I got would be raped by Stuart's speed armour and firepower.

you dont need to see the future to know that usf is going for a light vehicle.

But i want to know when USF has it. If he has grenades, bars and ambulance it would come too late then.

against a good opponent the pak wont do much good than use your pop cap and take away your mp that you desperately need in the early game.

having a habit on circling PAK with broken engine? Lone pak will lose i am certain, but with grens snaring and mines to be lured its not so simple.

2 grens will chase the light vehicle to their base and bleed mp meanwhile, and then it just comes back for more.

So don't push it to base then.. push it in front of your pak or into mines or away from cap.

sweepers and avoid roads.
again sweepers and you need your muni for upgrades.

Sweeping everywhere, contesting nowhere. quite slow moving light tank i would say following rear echelons to battle. And i tought point of a light tanks is to be fast and supprising. Btw driving over infantry mines... Good doorbell btw...

But i want to know when USF has it. If he has grenades, bars and ambulance it would come too late then.



having a habit on circling PAK with broken engine? Lone pak will lose i am certain, but with grens snaring and mines to be lured its not so simple.




So don't push it to base then.. push it in front of your pak or into mines or away from cap.





Sweeping everywhere, contesting nowhere. quite slow moving light tank i would say following rear echelons to battle. And i tought point of a light tanks is to be fast and supprising. Btw driving over infantry mines... Good doorbell btw...

Just watch some high level usf play, and i think i know this topic better than you anyway.

Does force a wehr player to always go tier 2 for AT guns since there is always a early gsme rush from USF or SU.. that's the part I don't like is how wehr is always responding to the actions. But I guess that's how it's supposed to be. Got used to it now..

Does force a wehr player to always go tier 2 for AT guns since there is always a early gsme rush from USF or SU.. that's the part I don't like is how wehr is always responding to the actions. But I guess that's how it's supposed to be. Got used to it now..

Wehr have wide selection of units in each tier to counter everything specifically to respond to allied player, unless you dominate, you're not really supposed to dictate pace of the game as wehr, unless you use sniper or play vs brits.

Wehr have wide selection of units in each tier to counter everything specifically to respond to allied player, unless you dominate, you're not really supposed to dictate pace of the game as wehr, unless you use sniper or play vs brits.

You're not ABLE to dictate the game as Wehr. There's nothing written by Relic about Wehr not being supposed to dictate the pace of the game. You made that info up as you often do in your 1000's of biased posts. 7600+ posts. How many of them call for a nerf to allies? What's your estimate? 1%?


Having to build 2 AT guns just-in-case of light vehicles when what you really need is AI to stop the hordes of infantry is punishing. If you complain about the Luchs vs the Brits but not about the t70 and US light vehicles vs Wehr - that's bias.


You don't know enough about this game to say which faction should be dictating pace or indeed if any should. Drop the self-assured tone. You haven't earned it.

@Bulgakov
Compare tech prices, compare unit rosters and timings, compare doctrinal support, upgrades, side upgrades.

Pretty much everything on wehr side SCREAMS that the army is supposed to start slow and pick hardcounters in response to opponent while gathering its momentum for late game.

Moreover, this is the same design wehr had in coh1, only different units in different tiers, army flow is to respond on the situation, not dictate it in an equal game and that is what we've seen most recently on ESL.

And speaking of bias, wehr does have shrecks and fausts, who do brits have? AEC, PIATs and tears on luchs.

I've seen many games where luchs lasted until the end of the game, I don't remember last time when I've seen vet3 T70 or stuart.

But please, do more void vacuum comparisons without taking into account the rest of the army and the units it can field, thats always helpful for balance discussions.

Just watch some high level usf play, and i think i know this topic better than you anyway.

Ok its just "nicht schießen" or same in english "look! i've got clean hands" then.

You're not ABLE to dictate the game as Wehr. There's nothing written by Relic about Wehr not being supposed to dictate the pace of the game. You made that info up as you often do in your 1000's of biased posts. 7600+ posts. How many of them call for a nerf to allies? What's your estimate? 1%?


Having to build 2 AT guns just-in-case of light vehicles when what you really need is AI to stop the hordes of infantry is punishing. If you complain about the Luchs vs the Brits but not about the t70 and US light vehicles vs Wehr - that's bias.


You don't know enough about this game to say which faction should be dictating pace or indeed if any should. Drop the self-assured tone. You haven't earned it.

If you need 2 AT guns to stop a Stuart, you're being outplayed. It is a good unit, but not an unholy terror. An OKW shreck or Pak + gren is enough to scare it off unless you let it circle strafe, in which case you deserve to lose. A 222 can also help a lot in a pinch, it's cheap and can either block or add some damage to your arsenal. A surprise double shrecks on Pgrens can take care of both light vehicles, but of course it's hard to amass 120 munitions, still managed to make it work a couple times.

You're also unlikely to be facing ''hordes'' if your enemy goes for a fast Stuart. The Captain can be a handful, but MG42s with some backup can handle rifles until they get vet 3 and smoke grenades, the latter of which further delays the Stuart.

To tell the truth, I'm actually more scared of M20s as Ostheer. The damage output is similar enough, it comes way earlier so you're highly unlikely to have a Pak, can lay mines that can kill your rescuing Stug outright, includes a bazooka to scare off the 222, and the Lieutenant can be very scary if you don't manage to suppress it because you're also unlikely to have G43s/LMG42s yet.

If Ostheer was really so weak vs the Stuart, they wouldn't be faring so well in tournaments and 1v1 automatch. The faction has very powerful tools, one simply needs to use them well.

Apparently what Im getting so far from this thread is many points like this:

-I don't want to build AT to counter armor
-Im too lazy to make AT, so nerf this so I dont have too
-I don't believe in baiting armor into my ATs range, I must A move into the armor.
-I don't know how to use AT guns.
-I got outplayed so everything must be made easyer for me to prevent it from happening again.
-Salt





Salt.

You're not ABLE to dictate the game as Wehr. There's nothing written by Relic about Wehr not being supposed to dictate the pace of the game. You made that info up as you often do in your 1000's of biased posts. 7600+ posts. How many of them call for a nerf to allies? What's your estimate? 1%?


Having to build 2 AT guns just-in-case of light vehicles when what you really need is AI to stop the hordes of infantry is punishing. If you complain about the Luchs vs the Brits but not about the t70 and US light vehicles vs Wehr - that's bias.


You don't know enough about this game to say which faction should be dictating pace or indeed if any should. Drop the self-assured tone. You haven't earned it.

Dude really? you're going to call someone out on playing Allies but most of all of your games are Axis... talk about hypocrisy

why would you build 2 AT guns for 1 light vehicle? 1 well place one is more than enough. 2 is instant kill.

Let's see T70 requires T1/T2 40/50 fuel then T3 is 85? Then T70 is 70 fuel? Assuming I am right on those numbers... that's a minimum 195 fuel with no side upgrades. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Luchs requires mechanized HQ (50 fuel) and to build luchs (65 fuel)... total of 115

Can you now tell me what you're comparing? A T2 tank versus a T3 tank that costs almost twice the price and longer timing...

If anything I will call you out on bias.

Apparently what Im getting so far from this thread is many points like this:

-I don't want to build AT to counter armor
-Im too lazy to make AT, so nerf this so I dont have too
-I don't believe in baiting armor into my ATs range, I must A move into the armor.
-I don't know how to use AT guns.
-I got outplayed so everything must be made easyer for me to prevent it from happening again.
-Salt





Salt.

Not far off the comments in the official patch notes

Dude really? you're going to call someone out on playing Allies but most of all of your games are Axis... talk about hypocrisy

why would you build 2 AT guns for 1 light vehicle? 1 well place one is more than enough. 2 is instant kill.

Let's see T70 requires T1/T2 40/50 fuel then T3 is 85? Then T70 is 70 fuel? Assuming I am right on those numbers... that's a minimum 195 fuel with no side upgrades. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Luchs requires mechanized HQ (50 fuel) and to build luchs (65 fuel)... total of 115

Can you now tell me what you're comparing? A T2 tank versus a T3 tank that costs almost twice the price and longer timing...

If anything I will call you out on bias.

You made kind of a fair point. The last 6 months all I've played is Axis. I used to play allies though, you can check that.

I didn't call him out on only playing allies though. I called him out on making biased posts. If you don't believe me, do a search for his posts (he's well-known on the forum for trolling, insulting people and flame-baiting.)

If you check my posts, you'll find something like 25% agree with calls for nerfs to axis units or buffs to allied units.



As for your point about the AT guns. If you want to kill a light vehicle, you need 2. Stuart takes three hits. Microed t70 can take 3 too (self-repair after first hit). I've seen top players calling for light vehicles to be moved back in tech as they come so soon and end the fun early-game infantry battles. The Luchs could also be moved back to my mind.

Either that or give Ostheer a fast light tank too. Everyone else has some kind of vehicle with decent armour that can come out fast except Ostheer.

I also never said the Luchs was balanced.