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Running over troops

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Myself
6 Jan 2016, 13:08 PM
#21
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Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 12:29 PMKatitof

Except its not an issue.
Its a feature.
Its not going anywhere.

It is an issue, if you fail to see the significance of this issue try playing COH1 when infantry pushing and crashing made the game experience pretty bad...I did not claim that removing is the only solution there are other solutions...crashing become an issue only after the changes in infantry snares so there are other solutions...
jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 12:29 PMKatitof

You're getting run over all the time and can't stand for it anymore?
Get good.
Tanks run over scrubs all the time while its more rare event at higher level play, but its there and its not going anywhere.

PLS do not address me personally or make this issue a personal issue. This thread is not about me its "crushing humans"
jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 12:29 PMKatitof

End of topic really, there is nothing more to it.

Well when a topic comes to end is not actually your call, and if you have nothing more to say move to another post and let people who have to contribute to this post to actually be constructive.

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Australian Magic
6 Jan 2016, 13:21 PM
#22
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Crushing is L2P becasue there are many ways to prevet it.

Your enemy sees your infntry and rushes tank to crush you? Great, he's overextending his tank so you at gun and kill it.

When I see crush is bad mechanic, 9/10 times it's probably written by someone who blobs 4 volks squads under one hotkey in narrow place and got crushed.

Again, mines, snares, at gun, micro, your tanks, retreat. So many ways to prevent crushing.
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Purlictor
6 Jan 2016, 13:27 PM
#23
avatar of Purlictor

Posts: 393

An important thing to stop your guys from getting crushed is not to give them move orders. Just let the squad AI do most of the work, then retreat if necessary.

The only broken thing was the 'instant rotate' where a tank does a bugged instant 180 degree turn, crushing everything around it. You know, the kind that especially M10s and ACs/Pumas would sometimes do. I can't remember tanks in CoH2 ever doing that so it might've been fixed.

Infantry pushing in CoH1 was massive when it came to jeeps/bikes. It really made the skill ceiling a lot higher since there were still obvious counterplays.

sig by tricky <444>3
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Myself
6 Jan 2016, 13:58 PM
#24
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 13:21 PMAustralian Magic
Crushing is L2P becasue there are many ways to prevet it.

As I already pointed out to you if top players can not prevent is not a L2P issue. Further more just because there counters to something does not mean it is a L2P.

As I also pointed out there very little consideration to how effectively units can crash humans...
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ferwiner
6 Jan 2016, 14:14 PM
#25
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Posts: 2885

Its true that this feature looks unrealistic. The reason why its needed is that tank machine guns are very underpowered in coh2. I mean without a crush most tanks cant do much against infantry becouse their machinguns deal less damage than lmgs. If it was ment to be more realistic tanks should kite infantry snares with mgs instead of running through the formation but that needs tank mgs to melt infantry like real hmg (without suppression).
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Australian Magic
6 Jan 2016, 14:17 PM
#26
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Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 13:58 PMMyself

As I already pointed out to you if top players can not prevent is not a L2P issue. Further more just because there counters to something does not mean it is a L2P.

As I also pointed out there very little consideration to how effectively units can crash humans...


You are wrong. You base on something uncommon instead of common. Most of the time every player (not just top) can prevent crushing. SO you should base on more common situation.

Someone lost infantry to crushing 1 time out of 10 and it is your base that's it's not l2p.

According to you broken logic, dive bombing entire army is not L2P, it's completly OP.
Mines are not L2P becasue top players sometimes drive over them.
Killing base is not L2P becasue Paula lost his base for example agasint VonIvan.
Or T70 is OP, becasue in one game long time ago it killed over 40 (?) units sniping one after another. Cleatly it's not L2P becasue top player could not defend himself from T70.
Oh yea, top player did not dodge nade! It's OP. Remove nades.
and on...
and on..
and on.



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elchino7
6 Jan 2016, 14:20 PM
#27
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L2P is just an easy way to say it's avoidable. On the same way you dodge a nade, you should know when you are forced to retreat.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Myself
6 Jan 2016, 14:24 PM
#28
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Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 14:14 PMferwiner
Its true that this feature looks unrealistic. The reason why its needed is that tank machine guns are very underpowered in coh2. I mean without a crush most tanks cant do much against infantry becouse their machinguns deal less damage than lmgs.


riflemen_30cal_lmg_mp 6.12 7.292 8.27 9.02 9.17
sherman_m4a3_coaxial_vehicle_turret_mp 7.57 7.57 5.52 4.17 3.45
sherman_m4a3_vehicle_hull_mp 5.79 5.79 4.92 3.81 3.12

Not very accurate...some of them are even better close range...the difference only become significant at ranges 25-35...
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Myself
6 Jan 2016, 14:29 PM
#29
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Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 14:17 PMAustralian Magic

You are wrong. You base on something uncommon instead of common. Most of the time every player (not just top) can prevent crushing. SO you should base on more common situation.

Well Relic seems to agree with me, that at least in some occasions, it is balance issue and thus removed crash from the T-70...
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Myself
6 Jan 2016, 14:31 PM
#30
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Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 14:20 PMelchino7
L2P is just an easy way to say it's avoidable. On the same way you dodge a nade, you should know when you are forced to retreat.


And L2P is usually followed by "you" should do this and that, ending up to turn what should had been a debate on a balance issue into personal vendetta...practically stopping any meaningful debate and slowing down the progress of the debate...it also creates a very hostile and toxic environment...At least that is my opinion on the matter...

L2P is discouraged and may prompt moderation.

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Qvazar
6 Jan 2016, 14:37 PM
#31
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Posts: 881

Relic removed crush from T-70 because it was so insane on such a fast tank. Then came new factions with M-10s and Cromwells...
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whitesky00
6 Jan 2016, 14:40 PM
#32
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Posts: 468

shrek blob. faust spam... i don't see crush too often against Axis
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Imagelessbean
6 Jan 2016, 14:42 PM
#33
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Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 12:53 PMGazbag
The logic behind playing with a tank, see some infantary in the distance and decide to run over it, is like having a loaded gun and rush the enemy to stab them with my bayonet.


Except that the tank is firing the whole time and crushing offers different strategic options. I still fail to see how crushing does not deepen the game. A single squad being wiped is simply a matter of knowing when to hit the retreat button since this removes the mechanic.
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WingZero
6 Jan 2016, 17:00 PM
#34
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Posts: 1484

Crushing troops is the best part of the game. I cant even count how many times I ran over blob noobs with my Cromwell and wrecked the entire army. Crush is very difficult to pull off on certain maps and against a competent player.

No changes are needed.
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elchino7
6 Jan 2016, 18:08 PM
#35
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 14:29 PMMyself

Well Relic seems to agree with me, that at least in some occasions, it is balance issue and thus removed crash from the T-70...


Reminder that T70 used to appear at 5-7mins into the game, tellers and paks were expensive, there was no such thing as Puma, etc. Too many things changed.
Relic is not agreeing with you, all medium tanks have crush and the only light tank that does have it is the Su76.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong but the only unit which got it's crush removed after T70 was the SwS HT but that was an overlook from Relic from the Alpha to release.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Myself
6 Jan 2016, 18:22 PM
#36
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Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 18:08 PMelchino7

Relic is not agreeing with you, all medium tanks have crush and the only light tank that does have it is the Su76.

Relic change demonstrate that it can be balance issue and not a L2P for some units...
Retreat still worked, Faust still worked at the time...

My point is that it can be balance issue since some tanks are very good at it and other are not and that is not reflected in price, CP or role of the specific unit...
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__deleted__
6 Jan 2016, 19:06 PM
#37
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Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2016, 11:35 AMAustralian Magic


Why don't you say to Jesulin that only retards can be pushed back to base and dive bombed?

Even tho T34 is shit tank it can be pain in the ass and inflict haevy damage. Same with crushing it can be countered but it does not mean it is countered always.



Also say to DevM . He got divebombed in SC2 too (against korean army). Hovewer base off maps are stupid , but that is another thread for them
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Mr. Someguy
7 Jan 2016, 01:19 AM
#38
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Posts: 4928

Imo it should be removed on units with high acceleration, say above 2.5, which I think would only effect the M10 and Cromwell.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

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Vuther
7 Jan 2016, 01:50 AM
#39
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Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

I have no issue with the mechanic, I only have a problem with that it's very unintuitive and players are only going to figure out about it by getting pancaked by it or from other players' telling them. It can be very significant and so I'd rather like at least a small tutorial cluing new players in on it.

If we were to largely remove the mechanic of tanks crushing by turning into infantry, it'd only make sense to go about that by greatly reducing tanks' speeds to turn...which I'd also be OK with since it'd be a secret flanking buff. :megusta:
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jugglerman
7 Jan 2016, 05:59 AM
#40
avatar of jugglerman

Posts: 92

Can't even get a tank to drive in a straight line with the ridiculous vehicle pathing ATMO.

Most crushing incidents seem to be by accident now.
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